[wruza]

I don’t believe in this theory and my experience with therapy suggests it just makes little sense. Emotional outbursts (like being startled/angered/in pain) may be temporarily irrational your own logic-wise, but your regular emotional background absolutely reflects what you actually believe is happening and the way you think. So unless you’re doing emotional logging and are really managing your beliefs, deep settings, etc afterwards, this is simply impossible. I mean you can learn therapy, but it’s not a knowledge you’re born with as a regular guy and it’s a whole “learn C++ in 21 days” thing.

There is a level of being still not broken enough, but then emotions aren’t a problem in the first place. You usually end up trying to manage them when you’re already lost and what people do is simple suppressing, thinking that’s how “adults” do.

To be clear, I provide no answer to this thread, only a comment.

[theultdev]

> Emotional outbursts (like being startled/angered/in pain) may be temporarily irrational your own logic-wise, but your regular emotional background absolutely reflects what you actually believe is happening and the way you think.

Yes your emotional background reflects what you believe is happening, but you can correct your belief if you analyze and rationalize the emotional response when you feel it, which then updates your emotional background.

> So unless you’re doing emotional logging and are really managing your beliefs, deep settings, etc afterwards, this is simply impossible.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting you do.

Upon receiving every major emotional reaction you make it a habit to analyze it immediately afterwards.

[wruza]

I find it very hard to impossible to do immediately afterwards. I can detect it, which is somewhat obvious, and write down the situation, but finding the source of it immediately I find unrealistic.

Either we talk about different things here, or I lack some Sherlock Holmes level skills that you have.

Anyway, if something bothers me that hard, making it unbother me is an improvement to work in a stupid situation, not self-normalization.

For example, recently I got frustrated when an inexperienced relative wrongly measured airport hand baggage (pure geometric cluelessness) and insisted airport will do it that way too. I find this frustration absolutely normal and don’t really want to get rid of it, cause it’s immediately actionable and the response is correct-ish.

Otoh, I successfully defeated my non-actionable fear of being late, but it took me a couple of advanced techniques I didn’t even know existed, some movie-level talk to your childhood stuff.

So there’s so much to it that I just don’t see how to “just do afterwards” (at least it sounds like that).

Again, feels we are talking different things here, not sure. And sorry for the stream of consciousness.

[theultdev]

I coded my thought process of a specific example if it helps clarify what I'm talking about:

https://gist.github.com/TheUltDev/fc8386e42205504c55d1cf2127...

(as this is a state of mind and logic thing, a program of state and logic is a better way to describe it vs words)

[aspenmayer]

> Otoh, I successfully defeated my non-actionable fear of being late, but it took me a couple of advanced techniques I didn’t even know existed, some movie-level talk to your childhood stuff.

Can you elaborate on these techniques?

[wruza]

The downward arrow (cbt) with elements of self-hypnosis.

You basically log-trace your mind at emotional points, including pulling up automatic thoughts (somewhat difficult, they tend to escape). Datetime, situation, emotion, thoughts, levels. Then intersect it all through time, because different situations disturb different sets of facets of your problem, but only one facet is primary. This discovers intermediate beliefs and coping strategies, makes them explicit. And then you logically realize your core belief. It may happen quickly or slowly (weeks), depends on how conscious you are about it and how often it happens.

In my case it was: unable to do anything 4-5 hours before an appointment or even a friends meeting. Set up a few timers, got ready step by step, doing mostly nothing in time buffers. Check for clean clothes, etc. Afraid of forgetting time and being late. Coping: long preparation, timing processes, checking time in the car. Intermediate belief: if I prepare I’ll be on time. Core belief: being late is atrocious and intolerable.

Realizing is only half the job. To destroy a core belief you have to remember how [irrationally] it formed, that’s where hypnosis kicks in. I couldn’t sleep/relax in a session, but took homework. Basically before you go to sleep you ask yourself “when it was”, as if there was some entity inside you who could answer. Few minutes later it just flashed in pre-sleep in every detail. It’s akin to thinking “I will wake up at 6:30” and doing so, a similar process and feeling.

I was few hours late from school when my grandma waited for me and couldn‘t get to work (strict schedule). She was afraid of giving me the keys. I was tired that everyone plays after classes and I cannot, so decided to just not care. She was very angry and terrified, hit me and went away like I was an enemy.

Next week after therapy, for the first time in 25 years I was being intentionally late to a doctor, said hi, sorry for being late. She said it’s fine, smiled and asked what I came with.

I realize I have serious issues here (like many others probably). But I believe either there’s no easy way to “just reflect afterwards”, or these issues aren’t really that hard to make this process explicit. I, for one, don’t understand how you get an emotion if a logical counter is readily available in your mind. It won’t happen for me in the first place then. Maybe on the contrary, I’m… healthier?