[SoftTalker]

Sounds like a variant on the "induced demand" theory that people who are opposed to road building always trot out.

[J_Shelby_J]

Well, we’re not going to roll it out.

But it’s not really a theory so much as an established fact that the only way to reduce traffic is to have viable alternatives to driving.

[bluGill]

Only because noboby is willing to pay for all the roads a city needs. Freeways in very rural places are never congested because we outbuilt demand.

Des Moines needs Huston levels of freeway to meet current demand. Which is why nobody is willing to pay for it.

[marcosdumay]

No city has enough space for all the roads everybody need to get everywhere by car. You'd pave the entire city and it would still not be enough.

But, of course, the people saying "better streets would only make people drive more" are stupid. It's just that the people insisting one can do everything by car are also stupid.

[exe34]

> But, of course, the people saying "better streets would only make people drive more" are stupid.

that's right, better streets and more parking area will deter car use.

[bluGill]

The only people saying that are sarcastic. cut it out, it isn't halping anything.

what people want is to do things. They want better streets and more parking because they think it will help them - induced demand proves they are right. If you don't like it then work on a real answer, great transit for example (not the transit for people with 5 DWIs that we are trying to punish - which is what all most people see, no wonder they don't want it.)

[exe34]

we have pretty good transit in Europe. it's America that worships cars. just one more lane.

[bluGill]

You can go up and down and find plenty of space.

of course that is even more expensive.

[marcosdumay]

Or you invest on something that uses less space for the more fixed routes people do. And let them use cars on the more diverse routes...

[bluGill]

That is the affordable answer.

[obelos]

If you have ever not gone somewhere because “there's too much traffic” or chosen to go to a store because it has easier parking than an equivalent alternative store, you've experienced the rudiments of induced demand.

[bluGill]

Generally it isn't traffic but it takes too long so you don't even consider it. if we had telleportation I'd have lunch in a Paris café but that would mean 8 hours to get there so I don't consider it.

[entropicdrifter]

We'd still have induced demand even if we had teleportation, the bottleneck would just be the capacity of venues, restaurants, and retail businesses.

You wouldn't consider casually popping into a Paris cafe if the wait was always 4 hours or you had to have a reservation months in advance, which would be the case if travel time was a non-factor for everyone

[threatofrain]

We might end up with less because we realize we already overbuilt and restaurants were depending on local captivity.

[jessriedel]

It is, but in both cases it's not a good reason by itself to reduce investment in supply (roads or GPUs).

[rcxdude]

One is indeed an example of the other