[Snoozle]

From reading about this and Ozempic it appears the main functionality is reducing appetite / blood sugar spikes which results in weight loss. I am curious for those who are using it who have traditionally had a relatively poor diet (refined carbs, sugars, etc), has it changed what foods are desirable or does it simply reduce the amount eaten? In addition, when using these products and switching to a healthy diet such as high protein, which already typically affects satiety, does it cause the inability to eat an adequate amount of calories to function properly?

[UI_at_80x24]

I was diagnosed with Diabetes 2 years ago. As soon as I found out I immediately changed my diet. 0 carbs My blood sugar would still go too high. My fasting blood sugar (first reading in the morning after waking up. "12+hr fasting") was often the highest of the day. I spent the next 14 months trying different drugs to mitigate my blood sugar levels. So one day out of desperation I asked my Doctor if i could try ozempic.

It worked INCREDIBLY well. I started adding carbs back into my diet. My blood sugar stayed in good shape. I started loosing weight too. Before Ozempic and going 0-carbs I lost ~20lbs over 14 months. After taking Ozempic I have lost ~80lbs.

I still STRONGLY desire sugar/sugary foods. My cravings for bread is really bad too.

Ozempic controlled my sugar so well that I have been able to add carbs back into my life.

[sfjailbird]

Is it even possible to have high blood sugar while eating zero carbs? You could be catabolising muscle mass but that would be a case of extreme malnutrition and/or type 1 diabetes.

These drugs fix symptoms only, and only for ad long as you keep using them. They have adverse effects, and probably well beyond the published ones. Most signs point to T2D being caused by insulin resistance, which builds up through bad diet and lifestyle. You can 'fix' symptoms by forcing the body to pump out more insulin, but science and common sense would indicate that this could end up worse off in the long run.

[user_7832]

> Is it even possible to have high blood sugar while eating zero carbs?

To the best of my knowledge, glucagon releasing glucose (from glycogen) allows the liver to make glucose even if no carbs have been consumed.

[djur]

> probably well beyond the published ones

What is this claim based on?

[advisedwang]

You can eat fat and get energy from that.

[ddorian43]

Did you measure 1 hour after wake up? At wakeup there's the "dawn effect" where glucose rises/ketones fall.

What diet did you really try? Keto diet is known to ~easily fix T2D. A good company that can do that is virtahealth.com.

The only way to quit drugs (sugar) is to no take drugs at all, not take less drugs.

Source: I do keto diet but for other reasons. I was addicted to carbs, but not fat, and am no more. I would end up as T2D in 10-20 years though. If I restart carbs I will get addicted again.

[UI_at_80x24]

  Yes, it was measured first thing, and yes it was the 'Dawn Effect'.

Within 4 hours it would fall into the 'safe-zone'.

  At that time my diet was 100% protein/fat,  0 carbs.

I assumed (and Doctor shruggingly agreed) that it was probably my body fat being metabolized and raising my blood sugar.

[ddorian43]

It's probably the protein. Not eating fat should also feel horrible too, messing hormones etc.

Source: Pretty well known in keto epilepsy/cancer/psychiatry. I do epilepsy keto diet. Having high protein will increase glucose & lower ketones (tested blood many times with just 2 ingridients beef & beef fat). I aim for 80%-90% of calories from fat. Or 2 to 1 weight ratio of fat and protein/carbs.

For T2D you probably need just 60% fat calories though.

[djur]

Your own personal experience is not a "source" for what is easy, hard, possible or impossible for other people.

[ddorian43]

About what? Yes, I know quitting drugs is impossible for many people. When you have serious issues, you need a serious professional.

[djur]

A professional such as a doctor, who prescribes a medication that helps address the issue?

[ddorian43]

A substance abuse doctor & therapist.

[talldatethrow]

My dad was like you. At age 61 I finally got him to try 90 days of only fresh home squeezed/extracted vegetable juice. Technically all his calories those 3 months came from the sugars in the vegetables (celery, beets, carrots, cucumbers, tomato, orange).

All his markers improved, even diabetic markers, and blood pressure. He's off the 3 meds he was on.

[wil421]

I trust the other poster who worked with his doctor rather than a juice poster.

I’d bet your dad is my like father-in-law, any type of restrictive diet for 90 days would be helpful.

[talldatethrow]

Definitely. I'm not saying that 10 lbs of vegetables a day is healthy or anything. That would be crazy. You gotta add processed hormone injected meats, boiled dairy, and preservatives to get a healthy balanced diet.

[skrtskrt]

decades of medical research vs. a senior citizen on their first juice cleanse

[talldatethrow]

Population that spends more every decade and gets less healthy, vs senior citizen that gets off all his meds by changing his eating habits by trying juice for 90 days.

Gotta go with the tried and trusted med industry.

[Log_out_]

juices are just natural ingredients only sodas. might aswell take the original .

[talldatethrow]

For sure. Pepsi, or beet juice. Same thing! And if you eat them whole, I bet they're just like candy too in your opinion!

[petesergeant]

I've had both a good diet and a bad diet...

> has it changed what foods are desirable

No, although anecdotally some people find they can't eat high-fat foods any more. It has changed my reaction to hyperpalatable foods though, in that I don't really get the buzzing "just smoked a cigarette" effect from them any more.

> when using these products and switching to a healthy diet such as high protein, which already typically affects satiety, does it cause the inability to eat an adequate amount of calories to function properly

Not if you don't ramp your dosage up too quickly, but if you were to overdo it, then I guess it would.

[nox101]

I am curious too. I'm not "obese" by the medical defs (84kg, 177cm, 50s) but I could eat forever and constantly and I find that every time I finish some small amount of work (need to switch to the next issue) I get up and walk to the refrigerator looking for a snack. I generally keep from overeating by just not having any junk food nearby (though that's harder at work) and almost no calorie laden drinks. I don't feel hungry, I just seem to love eating. So I wonder if Ozempic would have any affect if all it does is remove my appetite since it "feels" like I don't have one most of the time.

[efitz]

> I just seem to love eating

Or it could be compulsive behavior, which can be diagnosed and treated either with counseling or medication.

[steveBK123]

Yes, the psychology of eating is generally under explored topic.

Some of the most obese people I knew had serious psychological wounds that they never healed.

Personally I end up feeling the opposite - I can eat the same weekday lunch for days in a row, and often get a sense of boredom of food before fullness.

I enjoy food, but I also enjoy lots of other things.. and not every bite/meal needs to be a work of culinary art. Italians would probably find this sacrilege.

For me there's a sense of food fitting a function during the week - nutrient/calories, versus going out to dinner on weekend for the social/enjoyment aspects.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Indeed every meal should deliver some pleasure.

But to be clear, 1 nectarine and 75g of blackberries is still a pleasure at about 100 calories

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

I'm 35, same weight and similar symptoms. I'm just always hungry.

I found some sort of balance where I go 5 times/week to the gym, increased muscles and eat very healthy (fruit, legumes, chicken, veggies). It still didn't solve the problem of being always hungry.

I could say it's psychological, but my son, 3, is the same: he is constantly looking for food. My daughter (6) is like my wife and she sometimes barely eats.

I'd love to lose weight though. I have been going to the gym a lot for the whole year, but my weight dropped only temporarily.

[sk11001]

The changes are in quantity and quality of food - it basically gives me self control around food which I've never experienced before.

[joshstrange]

From what I understand about Ozempic and friends is that it's not meant for super long-term use (I can't remember the exact time, like months to a year at most). Do you feel like that's reasonable? As in, do you feel like this is letting you form better habits that will continue after you stop using it? Or do you even have a feel for that (probably hard to guess how you will feel when you are off it)?

[djur]

There have been long-term studies of semaglutide much longer than a year. I'm not aware of any finding that indicates that long-term use should be avoided. There is some indication that the weight loss plateaus within the first several years for most people, but the weight control and blood sugar control effects are persistent.

[lr4444lr]

does it cause the inability to eat an adequate amount of calories to function properly

IANAD, but anecdotally it has been seen that a substantial - and arguably worrisome - amount of the weight loss is in lean body mass[0], so probably. GLP-1 agonists are for many obese and at-risk diabetics a worthwhile trade-off. Losing that last pesky 10 lbs. because you don't want to give up your daily 500 calorie latte? Probably not.

[0] https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.157...

[oarfish]

If you dont resistance train, any weight loss regimen will cause a loss of lean body mass, medications aren't different from an "organically" achieved caloric deficit. Training and size of the deficit as well as genetics heavily shift the proportion of adipose to lean tissue (which includes water) lost.

So far as i know, the signal that glp1 agonists are particularly worse for lean mass retention isn't strong enough to claim that they're worse for muscle mass retention than normal dieting.

[EasyMark]

You answered your own question. “… reducing appetite…” . It’s all about CICO but also not about that. The real game-changer is the fact people don’t have to have the will power of a Zen guru to fight off the hunger pangs. That’s the 90% you should take away from this. It’s almost effortless, and that’s a huge deal. People have been proposing what you say for a 100 years and obesity only got worse. If a drug can fix it relatively safely more power to them.

[gumby]

I believe this class of drug also suppress glycogen emission from the liver when exercising or eating.