[rootusrootus]

> Off leash even, I have always wanted to give my dog the most freedom possible. To heck with human rules.

I regularly meet people like that when I'm camping. I find it pretty frustrating. So many rules like that have basis in reality, they are not just meant to annoy.

[gretch]

As a dog owner, I agree with you.

I KNOW that my dog would never hurt anyone.

But I also know that no one else in the world has spent hundreds of hours with my dog, and to them he is a strange and large animal. Inevitably some of these ppl probably have some kind of childhood trauma related to dogs.

So I always have him leashed where the rules are to have a leash.

[Fomite]

This. As a dog owner, my dog remains on a leash. I don't know you. I don't know your dog.

More than once, I've been put in the position where my dog is getting agitated because they're on leash, their dog can't be controlled because they're off leash, and we're rapidly approaching the "Swift kick or risk injury" stage.

"My dog is off leash because I want them to have freedom" is a profoundly selfish decision if you're in a place to encounter other dogs.

[bartread]

> "My dog is off leash because I want them to have freedom" is a profoundly selfish decision if you're in a place to encounter other dogs.

This is cultural, I think. In the UK at least it’s often the norm for dogs to be off leash in open areas like commons (public land, usually grassy or wooded, or a mix of the two), or in other settings where they’re away from roads and won’t encounter livestock.

On public footpaths in the countryside farmers will put up signs indicating where livestock are and where dogs need to be kept on leash. The rest of the time, again, most dogs will be off leash.

Compliance is really high, with almost all dog owners I see following these rules.

There’s a deterrent as well: if your dog is bothering farm animals the farmer is within their rights to shoot the dog.

I do think the post you’re responding to has a very naive view of dog psychology though. Thousands of years of selective breeding means that dogs are fundamentally not wild animals, and as such their behaviours and needs are quite different from their wild relations, such as wolves. Many breeds of dog are so far removed that they would very likely be incapable of surviving in the wild: I’m thinking principally of designer breeds like pugs which, overall, I strongly disapprove of.

[darby_nine]

Interesting that livestock is the primary concern—I'd imagine interactions with other dogs (which can be highly stressful, though this varies a lot from dog to dog) would be the primary issue these days.

[wizzwizz4]

Livestock haven't gone away.

[darby_nine]

Sure, but their dominance in culture compared to dogs certainly has.

[bartread]

What is this world that some of you seem to live in where interactions with other dogs are, apparently, incredibly problematic?

Dogs encounter eachother all the time when you're out on a walk and it's... fine (again, I'm talking UK here). What's the worst thing that happens that you're all paranoid about your dog meeting, gasp, the horror... another dog?

This makes no sense to me.

[darby_nine]

Yes. Dogs meeting other dogs can be extremely stressful. What is your confusion? Let me help you.

I assure you, even in the uk, dogs are still dogs.

[cafard]

Depends on the dogs. There have been a few dogs in my neighborhood that have attacked other dogs, with the dog that came off worse requiring veterinary attention. In one case the dogs were on leash, but each probably outweighed the walker.

To be fair, I am talking about three or four incidents over twenty years.

[Unearned5161]

this video corroborates your cultural hypothesis

https://youtu.be/3GRSbr0EYYU?si=Q15kFkFBE-aW2ail

[bartread]

That remains, in some ways, one of the funniest videos on the internet[0], but the dog owner was and is an absolute moron. Imagine letting your dog off the lead near a herd of deer. That incident took place in a literal deer park. They're not livestock, per se, but, no surprise, the outcome is about the same as letting your dog off the lead in a field of sheep, and the consequences could have been much more serious.

[0] To the point where we briefly considered naming a dog Fenton, but then realised the humour would wear off pretty quickly and it wouldn't really be fair on the dog.

[mhb]

I realize this question is likely not to be appreciated by many, but do you not know whether your dog is male or female?

[amanaplanacanal]

I must be stupid. Try as I might, I can’t figure out what prompted this question. What am I missing?

[mhb]

The use of the gender-neutral plural pronoun to refer to the dog instead of he/she/him/her.

...my dog is getting agitated because they're on leash...

[amanaplanacanal]

Ahhh. I’m so used to that construction I didn’t even see it. If you have had the same experience with multiple dogs of both genders, how would you put it?

[jjtheblunt]

My un-favorite is the people with dogs on the spring loaded extending leashes, who let their little crazy dog come running at my feral-parents dog from a distance, announcing "don't worry...my dog is friendly.".

The people _never_ ask if my dog on her 2 meter leash (the law in Arizona, btw) is friendly, dangerous, anything. They just announce that their dog isn't dangerous to us.

So often the small dog runs up to my dog's face full speed, centimeter from her nose, gets satan-barked at and driven away from us. she's sensibly trying to protect me and her from the little barely tethered full speed maniac.

The people ask if my dog was abused. Nope: had her since she was three months old, the feral mom and others were all adopted. They just don't seem to consider that _they_ were aggressive, in dog body language. And that's hopefully eye opening for them.

[imoverclocked]

Just yell back “Mine isn’t!” Then you both get a little bit of an adrenaline rush…

On a serious note, I miss the wide open spaces I could bring my dogs to in AZ. Where I live in NorCal it’s practically impossible and even if I could let my dog off leash in some places, the poison oak often stops me from even considering it.

[jjtheblunt]

Yeah, that's what works, even though she is friendly, just guards her pack. Like you surmised, it's often amusing watching the reactions.

Be glad in NorCal there aren't the ubiquitous rattlesnakes and babies this time of year. And of course the heat is an outdoors dealbreaker still for a few more weeks, except at dawn. Canine cabin fever. But i sure miss the more pleasant outdoorsy weather in NorCal.

[cafard]

I get along with most of the many dogs in my neighborhood quite well. But my experience has said that there are owners whose confidence in a dog considerably outruns any basis for it.

[_yb2s]

I adopt older rescue dogs which tend to be anxious and reactive with strange dogs. Sometimes when I go to a public place where dogs are required to be leashed, an unleashed dog will charge or approach my leashed dog who reacts violently and I have to intervene- often lifting my dog in the air while trying to fight off the unleashed dog with my legs. These off leash dog people are creating a huge hazard, and making it unsafe for people to walk reactive or anxious dogs. There are also many people that are terrified of even a “friendly” off leash dog, and are being terrorized and unable to escape. They will chant “he’s friendly, he’s friendly” instead of getting control of their dog.

Even the most friendly and easygoing dog becomes violent when they approach another dog and it lashes out.

If I have to kill or harm your “friendly” illegally unleashed dog to keep me and my dog safe I will- luckily I have not had to. Please leash your dog.

[carom]

I go to campsites and wilderness areas where dogs are allowed off leash. It is pretty much the best thing I can do for my dog. She mostly sleeps in the dirt all day after a morning hike when we are camping. I have a radio collar and a directional antenna so I can find her if she runs off, but she never has. Even on long backpacking trips she has always been within a few hundred feet. Obviously, make sure your dog's temperament is correct for the situation, but camping and hiking with a dog off leash is a joy.

[fyt2024]

"I go to campsites and wilderness areas where dogs are allowed off leash." In the US?

I move with my golden retriever back to the states. Should someone have a dog friendly place to rent in NJ close to NYC, Hoboken....

[jxcl]

In the US, wilderness area is a specific legal term[1], which have very restrictive rules about what visitors are allowed to do. Very specifically, dogs are _not_ allowed off-leash in wilderness areas, because they can disturb the local wildlife, and the stated goal of wilderness areas is to protect the local wildlife to the highest extent possible.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness#United_States

[williamstein]

The laws are more nuanced than you suggest. Here is a government website [1] that mentions dogs and says “Dogs must be under control at all times. Dogs can harass, stress, injure or kill wildlife; annoy fellow hikers and introduce disease. Some wilderness areas require dogs be leashed at all times.”

I have recently been in Mount Baker’s wilderness where dogs off leash away from trailheads are fine and also in Mount Shasta wilderness where pet dogs are not allowed even on leash. There is latitude for local tweaks to the rules in specific wilderness areas across the US. The US also has vast swaths of BLM and other lands where all kinds of fun recreation (hunting, dogs off leash, OHV’s, and all kinds of other things are allowed).

[1] https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/psicc/specialplaces/?cid=stel...

[williamstein]

In some situations a leash can be dangerous. Eg, a woman died today because her dog was on a leash.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/woman-drowns-kings-ri...

[carom]

Ansel Adams Wilderness allows off leash dogs.

[Gormo]

I just spent two weeks in Germany and noticed that almost nobody there keeps their dog on a leash. Dogs are loose on city streets, in open parks, pretty much everywhere. No one seemed to have an issue with it, and none of the dogs were misbehaving -- all of them were keeping up with their owners and not disturbing anyone else.

Maybe this is a cultural thing, both in terms of people's expectations of encountering dogs in public places, and in terms of the way dogs are trained and conditioned to respond to stimuli. Maybe keeping dogs on leashes prevents them from learning the skills they need to be off-leash reliably.

[mock-possum]

Unfortunately these rules punish dogs and good owners, while they’re smugly ignored by bad owners.

A well behaved dog off-leash is not a problem - but the rule isn’t against badly behaved dogs or inattentive owners - the rule is against off-leash, period. It isn’t fair to the good ones.

[danielschreber]

A good dog prefers to be on a leash.

c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Bark

[INTPenis]

I think we treat dogs wrong. Dogs are capable of resolving out most situations on their own, unless they're leashed. The leash changes everything and makes dogs more aggressive. Probably because they're scared about being attached to something when encountering a stressful situation like meeting other dogs.

The only reason we emphasize the leash is because any idiot is allowed to get a dog and mistreat it. So we leash them for the owner's sake really, not for any inherent fault of the dog.

So I can't argue with the rules to keep dogs leashed, I just refuse to do it.

Mine is tiny, it flies in the cabin on planes even because it's under 8kg.

But I've seen people with huge belgian malonois off leash, and they make a point of showing everyone around them how well trained it is. It walks next to them the whole time, they regularly give it commands to follow on their walk. So you have a responsibility with a big dog, because it can do more damage, and I think it's a good idea to demonstrate to any doubters around you that you can control it.

But if you just let a pittie go and then stare at your phone, you shouldn't be allowed to handle an animal.

But yeah this is a very hot topic because why should responsible people and good dogs be punished collectively because there are morons? I want more regulations in getting an animal. I see sooo many of them mistreated, neglected, when a child is born for example, now they're just being dragged along after the pram. Common human condition to be short sighted and get a dog as a fun item, but it lives for maybe 15 years. It's a huge commitment.