[akira2501]

I really think it's worth it to go back and read the original Apollo program proposals, technical conference memos, and NASA administrative plans to see the history of the program and how something like this gets off the ground in the first place.

The US was not a bastion of technical capability or well educated people in the 1950s. To say that the "skill doesn't exist anymore" suggests a misunderstanding of "where it comes from" in the first place.

You can do the same thing for Apollo as you can for the Shuttle. The process of reading through these histories, from front to back, is incredibly enlightening, and shows just how with determination alone you can build something like this from scratch.

That being said.. it really also helps if there's a dual purpose use for the military.

[sgnelson]

I think you drastically underestimate the influence that World War 2 had on up-skilling a technological workforce in the United States. I know a handful of people who's fathers or relatives went from farm boy to a radio technician with basic electrical engineering skills (or a similar story) because of the war.

The effect that war had on the technological progress, including learning the skills of how to manage a not-so-simple idea like going to the moon into reality was incredible, and a direct spinoff from the bureaucracy created during the war.

[Dalewyn]

Most people want to deny it, but both Apollo and Space Shuttle were the results of there being a Fucking War(tm) that had to be won at any cost.

Nowadays, that specific motivator is squarely with the Chinese.

[Rinzler89]

But what wars has China started though in order for us to be afraid of them?

If I look at the current score board in the last decades, US has invaded more counties than China (have they found those WMDs yet?), yet somehow we're (us non Americans in the west) are supposed to fear China, because reasons?

Honestly, my biggest enemy right now is my own EU government who has done the biggest damage to our country and because of them there's a shortage of doctors, teachers, etc, high inflation, stagnating wages, high taxes, unaffordable housing, etc. We have done that ourselves, not China. Whatever bad things China is doing in their own back yard is much less damaging to us than all those things I've just mentioned yet somehow we're expected to fear China.

Aren't these foreign boogie men convenient finger pointing to our corrupt and incompetent leadership: "Hey, don't look at us for your plummeting standard of living, look at Covid, Russia, China, immigrants with beards, The Loch Ness Monster, etc". Give me a break.

[Paradigma11]

China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line.

While it is true that it is globally not very active in military terms I am pretty sure that this is going to change when more and more economic partners are realizing that there is no more money coming from China and it is cheaper to just default on their debt and nationalize Chinese interests.

[defrost]

> and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line.

FWiW :

    The Republic of China (ROC), or simply China, was a sovereign state based in mainland China from 1912 until its government's retreat in 1949 to Taiwan, where it is now based.

    The nine-dash line, also referred to as the eleven-dash line by Taiwan, is a set of line segments on various maps that accompanied the claims of the People's Republic of China (PRC, "mainland China") and the Republic of China (ROC, "Taiwan") in the South China Sea.

    A 1946 map showing a U-shaped eleven-dash line was first published by the Republic of China government on 1 December 1947.

The area has always been claimed, whether by the ROC, the PRC, or indeed under Puyi, who had reigned as the Xuantong Emperor of the Qing dynasty.

The issue is that "Western" sea faring nations self selected themselves as arbitrators of global borders, including those of regions with governance dating back 4,000 years.

    On 12 July 2016, an arbitral tribunal organized under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) concluded that China had not exercised exclusive and continuous control over the [ dashed zones ]

    Over 20 governments have called for the ruling to be respected.
    It was rejected by eight governments, including China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%...

China and Taiwan have always claimed the regions within the nine dashed line.

[Paradigma11]

It is somewhat disingenuous to say that Taiwan claims those regions. China has made it clear that any abdication of those claims would be seen as a move towards independence and result in invasion.

Similar to the Chinese claims that the British never brought democracy to HongKong while China threatened invasion if any such thing had happened.

[Rinzler89]

>China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line.

Populist words are cheap. I'll start blaming China for warmongering when they actually put boots on the ground. Meanwhile how many dorne strikes has the US made in the middle east without any consequences?

[Dalewyn]

Wars don't have to be waged with rubber and lead; actually, fighting a war is about the worst possible way to wage one.

No, China is waging a war against the entire world in the smartest way imaginable, and most of us don't even realize it: They have their financial tendrils in all of our economies, down to the core elements and throughout the peripheries. Nearly everything has at least some degree of Chinese monies and thus influence now.

It's really only a matter of time until Pax Americana comes crashing down because we are all far too busy complaining about our navels. Be prepared, because Pax Sino isn't going to be kind to most of us.

[Paradigma11]

But the massive buildup of the Chinese Navy and their paramilitary maritime militias are not cheap. In the end the only thing that matters is if China invades Taiwan there will be war, if it doesnt there wont be. Better be prepared for the first case.

[Jensson]

Powerful undemocratic countries are scary, if they are willing to oppress their own people they are for sure willing to oppress other people as well.

[Rinzler89]

>Powerful undemocratic countries are scary

Just like all the other undemocratic dictatorships the west is "friends" with and turn a blind eye to their anti human rights actions?

[zo1]

There is no reasoning about this. Government as an entity (especially the "Rainbow" West ones like the EU and US) is literally schizophrenic or crazy or has multiple personality disorder (that's the best analogy I can come up with). Their laws are not internally consistent, their words don't match their actions, they entertain conflicting and opposing priorities, they actively do things to their own detriment, they promote the well-being of everyone but their own citizens, they can't get consensus on anything from their own populace, and they blame everyone and themselves too at the same time for their own failings.

They admit their own failings by showing us who they are "allergic" to. So yes, China may be a "bad guy", but they're painted as a boogeyman for a reason.

[jazzyjackson]

Apollo really was a rare alignment of motivations, unbounded optimism meets existential fear, ie, "humanity can migrate into the stars" overlapping with "if we don't do this the commies win first strike capability", seems unlikely to re-occur.