[mephitix]

Occasionally i've stumbled upon some neat tool or beautiful software and i'm like, wow - who's behind this? And then I realize it's these two folks. Their approach is so surprising and inspiring, thanks for putting out some cool stuff into the world!

[hosh]

Have you looked into the permatech community in general?

[worldsayshi]

What do you mean by permatech community? When i googled it I didn't find anything that fits the context.

[miffi]

The search term is "permacomputing" afaik.

Here's 100r's (specifically xxiivv's) page on the topic https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/permacomputing.html

The first paragraph gives a good overview of the idea:

> Permacomputing encourages the maximization of hardware lifespan, minimization of energy usage and focuses on the use of already available computational resources. It values maintenance and refactoring of systems to keep them efficient, instead of planned obsolescence, permacomputing practices planned longevity. It is about using computation only when it has a strengthening effect on ecosystems.

[lancesells]

So it's like permaculture but for software.

[hosh]

That's the idea. However, my initial criticism of the way permacomputing is formulated are:

1. We could have examined each of the 12 Permaculture Design Principle and attempted to directly apply them to software design. For example, "Observe and Interact" is so broadly useful and versatile (and the core of adversarial domains, such as warfare), it can easily be applied to software. You won't see it directly listed here: https://permacomputing.net/Principles/

2. The permaculture ethical principles are not there in full. "Care for life" refers to "Care for Earth", "Care for People", but nothing about "Fair Share". Comparing these two ways of looking at it, I don't see how the permacomputing formulation is an improvement on how the permaculture ethical principles are formulated. Furthermore, I think this has more to do with not sufficiently delving into the place of technologies within a regenerative paradigm. I am speculating here with little basis, but I don't think the people who came up with this got their hands dirty with planting, nurturing, and harvesting things.

However, reading more with 100r, CollapseOS, DuskOS, there is a lot of thought put into this even if I think there are some key things missing from my experience with permaculture.

It is why my friends and I are exploring the ideas of "permatech", what is Technology's full, integrated place within a living systems world view? We have yet to come up with anything coherent yet.

[chairmansteve]

"Technology's place within...a living systems world view"

If you mean modern high technology, I suspect it has no place.

It is a really interesting question,

[worldsayshi]

Do you have a forum for discussing this?

[Bluestein]

> planned longevity.

What a grand concept.-

[hosh]

Oops, I meant "permacomputing". Among my friends in a private discord group, we were generalizing that to all of tech and I forgot it originated from "permacomputing".

There is a related project from permacomputing that I'd like to highlight: CollapseOS/DuskOS which has overlapping and adjacent ends with what 100 Rabbits are trying to do with UXN. I know there are attempts to port UXN to DuskOS.

[azthecx]

What do you mean permatech?

[hosh]

I meant to say "permacomputing":

https://permacomputing.net/

http://collapseos.org/why.html

https://100r.co/site/weathering_software_winter.html

[azthecx]

Interesting concepts, thanks!