[nsguy]

Obstinant can just be a nay-sayer though? Someone who isn't even trying to solve the problem their way but someone getting in the way of problems being solved at all.

I have a lot of respect for people that are confident in something who are willing to actually go and do that something, even if they're wrong. Persistence in this context is persevering through being wrong and not giving up until you figure out a way to solve the problem.

[munificent]

Nay-sayers exist too, but I think they are out of scope for what PG is talking about. He's talking about the people actually working on solving a problem, not someone on the sidelines.

[nsguy]

Right. It confused me but re-reading PG's post he's certainly making that distinction. Yeah- I have seen the bash your head against a wall and not take any input kind of stubborn.

[andrewflnr]

That confusion does make this exact obstinate/persistent terminology tricky for conversations outside this particular HN thread, though. Which is a shame, because the underlying distinction as you've laid it out is very important.