[bigyikes]

The economy is predicated on future growth, so if growth slows due to lack of workforce, bad things may happen. Social programs become insolvent. It becomes difficult to take care of an aging population.

(Not sure what makes you say “cheap and exploitable”, are future generations somehow more exploitable than current or past generations?)

[thefz]

> The economy is predicated on future growth

Then change the economy to a more sustainable version of itself instead of predicating that people must multiply themselves to make another rich asshole even richer. Problem solved.

[knighthack]

Which goes back to the argument on constant growth. Why is there such a need for that?

[piva00]

The economical system we live under is predicated on future growth. The economy can have different forms, it's the exploitative way of economy that demands future growth, perhaps we should be looking into a different way to organise the economy that caters for the inevitable future where we won't have constant population growth to support the system.

[timeon]

> economy is predicated on future growth

But this is the problem. We already know with climate, that there is limit to the growth anyway.

[defrost]

Poor predicate in the long term. If earth based human population continues to grow bad things happen.

Basing success on always being able to find a fresh mark perhaps isn't sustainable.

[secstate]

I remember back when I'd spit the growth-for-growth-sake-is-cancer thing. But the reality is, unless you've spent time in a low/no-growth economy, how on Earth can you speculate on what is good or bad about it? All the last three generations of humans have ever know is unbridled, fantastical growth. And being pessimistic about continued growth is the definition of literal ignorance of what a no-growth or negative growth society looks like.

I'm not saying I have all the answers, or that we can keep this game going forever. But let's not pretend everything will be better when we finally stop having future generations to build our cars or take care of us in our old age. And no, robots wont do it for us (maybe cars, but damn, I hope I don't have robots taking care of me in my dotage).

[defrost]

I've spent decades in geophysical exploration for energy and mineral resources after growing up in agriculture and returning to it.

After spending time mapping entire countries for resources and having travelled through roughly two thirds of the 190+ countries I can report first hand that the earth is finite is size.

People familar with growth on a medium in a finite petri dish and increased cattle stocking on land, with fishing, and general consumption will be happy to tell you that infinite growth cannot be sustained from finite resources.

At some point metrics have to flip about and measure innovation and efficiency in a sustained economy.

Even should we branch out into space that still leaves the earth as a constrained system now exporting support to a outlier that needs time to itself become self sustaining .. Mars won't be suppporting Earth for many centuries to come, if indeed ever.

[invalidname]

I 100% agree with you but the main problem is retirement which is what they're seeing in Japan and China. The younger generation is too small and can't sustain the older generation. When you pay social security it isn't actually saved, it goes to pay for the current older generation. The assumption is that when you grow old the same will happen too...

This is further complicated by modern medical science which is prolonging the life expectancy of people and making the overall cost even heavier. That's why countries are trying to raise the retirement age.

The solution should be a major leap in productivity coupled with a more progressive taxation system. Neither one of these seem to be happening right now, I hope this changes.

[defrost]

Perhaps the younger generation doesn't want to spend time with the older generation and thinks they need too much looking after.

This morning (I'm in GMT+8) my father (born 1935) was out for five hours delivering Meals on Wheels to older people that have difficulty cooking for themselves.

[invalidname]

Do you mean that modern societies/families no longer take care of their elders within the family?

Wow. My mother was born in 47 and is now wheelchair bound. Barely functioning. It's probably that clean farm life that keeps your father vital at that age.

[ZeroGravitas]

The global human poulation isn't growing mostly due to births currently, it's growing because a very old generation is dying off and an old generation is aging but not dying as fast as the previous one.

Global replacement rate of ~2.1 is approaching (at the low end of estimates we're past it already), we're at 2.2 or so and population peak estimates keep getting lowered as models are updated with newer numbers, even with people living longer.

https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/newsroom/news-release...