[secstate]

I remember back when I'd spit the growth-for-growth-sake-is-cancer thing. But the reality is, unless you've spent time in a low/no-growth economy, how on Earth can you speculate on what is good or bad about it? All the last three generations of humans have ever know is unbridled, fantastical growth. And being pessimistic about continued growth is the definition of literal ignorance of what a no-growth or negative growth society looks like.

I'm not saying I have all the answers, or that we can keep this game going forever. But let's not pretend everything will be better when we finally stop having future generations to build our cars or take care of us in our old age. And no, robots wont do it for us (maybe cars, but damn, I hope I don't have robots taking care of me in my dotage).

[defrost]

I've spent decades in geophysical exploration for energy and mineral resources after growing up in agriculture and returning to it.

After spending time mapping entire countries for resources and having travelled through roughly two thirds of the 190+ countries I can report first hand that the earth is finite is size.

People familar with growth on a medium in a finite petri dish and increased cattle stocking on land, with fishing, and general consumption will be happy to tell you that infinite growth cannot be sustained from finite resources.

At some point metrics have to flip about and measure innovation and efficiency in a sustained economy.

Even should we branch out into space that still leaves the earth as a constrained system now exporting support to a outlier that needs time to itself become self sustaining .. Mars won't be suppporting Earth for many centuries to come, if indeed ever.

[invalidname]

I 100% agree with you but the main problem is retirement which is what they're seeing in Japan and China. The younger generation is too small and can't sustain the older generation. When you pay social security it isn't actually saved, it goes to pay for the current older generation. The assumption is that when you grow old the same will happen too...

This is further complicated by modern medical science which is prolonging the life expectancy of people and making the overall cost even heavier. That's why countries are trying to raise the retirement age.

The solution should be a major leap in productivity coupled with a more progressive taxation system. Neither one of these seem to be happening right now, I hope this changes.

[defrost]

Perhaps the younger generation doesn't want to spend time with the older generation and thinks they need too much looking after.

This morning (I'm in GMT+8) my father (born 1935) was out for five hours delivering Meals on Wheels to older people that have difficulty cooking for themselves.

[invalidname]

Do you mean that modern societies/families no longer take care of their elders within the family?

Wow. My mother was born in 47 and is now wheelchair bound. Barely functioning. It's probably that clean farm life that keeps your father vital at that age.

[defrost]

There's no single one stop comment for the entire planet.

My experience of Japan was that older people stay active longer .. and people like to have purpose and part of that can include looking after each other as people grow old and diminish in function at differing rates.

My experience of parts of some countries such as the UK and the US is that people get fat and relatively inactive some what sooner than I'm used to seeing in here in Australia and elsewhere (Vietnam, Nigeria, etc).

My father had a farming life early on, he's returned to a farm adjacent life in his early 80s, otherwise he's worked largely around minesites as a worker, foreman, manager but has stayed active walking about plants and constantly improving land they've owned by building walls, shovelling tonnes of literal shit for the garden, etc.

Fostering a sense of local community helps ease the changes as people age and there's a place for cross generational interaction in life also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13_rJVvxx_g