[2Pacalypse-]

One less talked about thing when discussing StarCraft, that might be more pertinent to HN audience, is that this game was almost endlessly hackable. And I mean that in the truest sense of that word. Many a careers were launched by playing around with OllyDbg and learning to reverse engineer code all so you could create an awesome plugin [0] for the community.

Which brings me to my next point, which is that the community aspect of StarCraft is a huge part of why it remained popular for so long. As previously mentioned, there were hackers and programmers developing awesome tools that helped the scene, but also there were map makers which were essential in keeping the game balanced. One little known fact about StarCraft is that the last balance patch released by Blizzard was in 2001, at the early beginnings of the pro scene. After that, the game was kept fresh and balanced by community map makers.

Combine that with people who created websites where you could follow news about Korean pro scene (TeamLiquid has its roots here), talk with other people about StarCraft, and other people who organized tournaments and did everything else; and you get a formula which almost ensures the longetivity of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if there are people playing and following this game in 20 years time. I know I'll be one of them.

[0] - https://github.com/TheEngineeringBay/Awesome-Broodwar-Resour...

[rvba]

The game also had custom maps that allowed for sandboxed programming / scripting.

A lot of very clever custom maps ("use map settings" / UMS) were made.

MOBA genere spawned from a Starcraft custom map called Aeon of strife. Starcraft also had a map called "the unknown" which is basically Among Us - made years ago.

There were "turret defense" maps, RPG maps, maps where you controlled one unit and tried to dodge things (bound maps) and many other maps that just changed the balance.

In the golden times players didnt have to play the cutthroat 1:1 all the timr - you could spend days playing custom maps (archives have tens of thousands of them), custom campaigns, modes with more players like 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4, or even 8 player everyone for themself.

Apart from "difficult" maps, there was a whole community playing maps with (nearly) unlimited resources - "fastest maps" and "big game hunters" (BGH). Those maps were easier so no "ladder anxiety" by having to play the best all the time.

Starcraft 1 gave a lot of freedom to have fun. You didnt have to participate in the incredibly difficult duels. You could play a custom map, or some 3v3 with your friends - where overall skill level was lower, but fun level was high.

Killing custom maps is in my opiniin one of the reasons why Starcraft 2 failed. Blizzard wanted to capitalize on them, but didnt know how. In Starcraft Brood War there was this game list - you could select UMS mode and pick from probably 100 open games. In Starcraft 2 you could only play what blizzard wanted you to play.

I guess Blizzard was unhappy that Warcraft 3 spawned the whole DOTA game - which was also a custom map.

Regarding hacking - many people learned java writing bots for Diablo 2.

[lying4fun]

> In Starcraft 2 you could only play what blizzard wanted you to play.

5 years ago when I played SC2 for the first time there was plenty of (iirc) “Arcade” maps which were UMS, and I’m pretty sure, community made. Are you perhaps talking about early days of SC2 when that still wasn’t a thing or? One map I was most impressed by and had lots of fun playing it, was called “Assassins”. I won’t explain what it is, but if someone took it to develop a game based on it, I strongly believe(d) that it’d be another hit game that spawned from SC

[rvba]

Im talking about the early days when there wasnt a "game list" where you could see the maps hosted by actual players. So the list only showed maps open at a moment.

Last time I tried SC2 arcade there was a list o hundreds of maps with zero players inside and you had to pray that some other players wanted to play the same map as you. So you would have to coordinate by a forum or friendlist to even play a game. So arcade was an empty desert.

Killing the "currently open games list" was such a antipattern... does SC2 have it now?

[lying4fun]

as far as I know it does have it, and my experience doesn’t match yours-on EU there was 20ish open lobbies (hosted by people) for different custom maps/arcades at all times. but yeah if it was like you are saying it was, I agree with your point. also, check the other reply to your comment from someone who is more up to date

[seoulmetro]

Yeah. He explained it as it was in the early days. Battle.net for Starcraft 2 really destroyed the game from getting popular. It's so sad that the Battle.net from 1998 was better than the Battle.net from 2012... They implemented chat several years after SC2 released. Clans even longer after.

They released it when the online connections were terrible, then everyone left before they got good.

[wes-k]

BGH and UMS are where I spent my entire StarCraft life. Lot of wonderful hours into those!

[throw156754228]

> Killing custom maps is in my opiniin one of the reasons why Starcraft 2 failed.

+1. The first time on bnet venturing into one of those BGH games, I was like, what the hell is this? Loved those custom maps.

[BiteCode_dev]

Blizzard missing the Moba train is when I understood it was not the same company anymore and they started to be corporate.

They stopped following the fans and community and started to push for business plans.

It worked, they made tons of money.

But I stopped admiring them.

[seoulmetro]

The seed was there before that...

They deliberately hindered the release of Starcraft 2 by releasing the online experience completely unfinished. No clans, no chat (at all), no PMing, no custom games. Nothing. It was like that for several years.

At that point, with 3 years of hype for the game, people came, played a bit of 1v1 then left. It was a botched job. Blizzard died with the release of SC2.

[BiteCode_dev]

To be fair to the team, Tor (from PirateSoftware fame) reported that Blizzard made more money selling one horse in WoW than with the entire Wing of Liberty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHZru-6M8BY

That would screw up anybody's motivation a bit.

Players get what they incentivize, and thanks to video games getting more and more popular, the tragedy of the commons applies.

Still, it sucks.

[seoulmetro]

Well, the horse costs only 4x less than the game. WoW has an insanely larger market cap.

It's not crazy that people bought the horse in more $ amounts than SC2's first release. It's crazy that people spent $15 on a single cosmetic.

I don't fully trust piratesoftware guy, since he does do a lot of clickbait, and isn't exactly a well known body from Blizzard. But I do reckon that micro transactions for a larger game would well outsell an old purchase model on a smaller game.

And yeah. We can only blame gamers for the way video games are now. The good games rarely get acknowledged, but the bad games proliferate continuously.

[arwineap]

They didn't kill custom maps in sc2, it's just in a section called arcade

Use map settings are the only thing keeping sc2 alive right now.

The game is now free to play which attracted a bunch of players who don't really know how to play melee

[setr]

They killed custom maps by killing the search mechanism. Not sure if they fixed it now, but on release it custom games were ranked by popularity… which just creates a feedback cycle where only already-popular games would show up anywhere on the top and get sufficient players to run. With no discovery, you ended up with the first acceptable maps, usually remakes of sc/wc3 maps, dominating the list and no way for new maps to compete.

The particularly stupid thing is the map editor for SC2 is ridiculously powerful, but afaik nothing interesting came out of SC2 custom map scene.

[lying4fun]

I played this custom map called "Assassins", and it was one of the best things I ever played, I'm not exaggerating. Idk if something similar already existed, or if it came out from SC2, but I was really hoping for someone to make a real game based on it. Everything I can find on the internet is just this one yt video, but it's an older version, I didn't play under 3.0 I think - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX4hpQouvKA

[try_the_bass]

> Regarding hacking - many people learned java writing bots for Diablo 2.

I remember it being Javascript, not Java. I forget the name of the tools involved, but I do remember creating a lot of Javascript bindings in C or C++, so that scripting engines would have interfaces to various bits of game engine code.

[GuB-42]

> Starcraft 2 failed

What? Starcraft 2 was a commercial and critical success, selling 6 million copies. It wasn't as successful as the original (11 million), but hardly a failure. It was the leading esports game before MOBAs took over.

The modding scene as we knew it is dead, also for the FPS genre. There are several explanations: games becoming technically more complex, commercial practices, cheating being taken more seriously, gameplay being more refined, with many of the good ideas having already being turned into their own games, the indie scene going for purpose made engines rather than mods, etc...

[bitxbitxbitcoin]

3v3bgh was my jam. No no rush.

[BiteCode_dev]

Tower defense was popularized by Starcraft mods.

Dota, and so LOL, is often thought of as something coming from Warcraft 3 Defense of the Ancient, but the concept really started as a starcraft mod as well.

Of lot of the gaming culture is born on the original Battle.net.

SC 1 was one of the most influential game ever created.

[seoulmetro]

Yep DotA was just a port of AoS: https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Aeon_of_Strife_(map)

[jhelphenstine]

I remember the map “V-TEC paintball” as a forerunner of the DotA and LOL styles - endless waves with you the (battlecruiser | marine | ghost) running around making the difference. HotS, LOL, DotA all seem to trace back to those “paintball” custom maps and the creators who made terrific use of the tools on offer.

[ccvannorman]

Came here to comment the same. I was making fun of my housemates for being addicted to DOTA (a MOBA game), then during a "Use Map Settings" game of Starcraft I discovered and enjoyed playing a mod called "Aeon of Strife" and shared it with my housemates.

DOTA is a direct descendant of Aeon of Strife.

I had discovered the original DOTA, inside Starcraft.

[inetknght]

> Many a careers were launched by playing around with OllyDbg and learning to reverse engineer code all so you could create an awesome plugin [0] for the community.

My career was launched by StarCraft! I've never been to high school or college. I played waaaaay too much StarCraft in my teens, and ended up writing a bot to maintain the chat room my friends were in.

The entire network stack had been reverse engineered, criticized, and documented if you knew where to look. Eventually that documentation made it to the public.

I interviewed with Blizzard a decade ago. I heard one of the interviewers state that the community documentation [0] is better than Blizzard's own internal documentation.

I now write software to fly drones. It's fun as hell and I'm glad of ye olde Blizzard. I know some are here on HN -- thank you guys for being awesome :)

[0]: https://bnetdocs.org/

[almost_usual]

> As previously mentioned, there were hackers and programmers developing awesome tools that helped the scene, but also there were map makers which were essential in keeping the game balanced.

Starcraft came out when I was a kid, the online community of Battle.net is really what got me into programming and development.

[benreesman]

My late brother was very serious about hacking and modding the shit out of StarCraft.

Thank you for the fun memory I wouldn’t have found otherwise, his birthday is around the corner and you’ve made my day.

[Shorel]

So true, many new game genres originated from StarCraft mods.

Tower defense, DoTA, among us, its legacy is legendary :D

[qsdf38100]

I’ve recently started watching StarCraft games again. Lee young ho aka Flash aka the GOAT returned from the military, and it’s been fantastic to watch. Artosis is a great commenter as well.

There’s something really unique with this game, I feel no other RTS has the same depth. I plan on returning to this game when I retire, in 20 years. See you then.

[wes-k]

SCUMS! (StarCraft Use Map Settings). These maps provided a wide array of games and I believe popularized or gave birth to a few. I remember tower defense, level up games where you and the other players explore the map and gain upgrades, a predator game where one player is chosen randomly to be the killer in a horror style hunt. Imagine, each map, possibly an entire new game, sometimes being discovered for the first time together with strangers. Such a fun and amazing time!