[nerdjon]

I highly doubt it, Apple has not charged for Mac for 10 years.

They have the profits from hardware and the upgrade cycle as new versions drop old hardware. I imagine if anything we will see a program like the iPhone upgrade program come to Mac. That would better fit their existing workflow anyways.

[bluescrn]

Apple is almost a subscription service. You just pay in huge installments once every 2-5 years, by replacing the entire device when the battery degrades or performance is starting to feel underwhelming.

[AlexandrB]

I'm looking at replacing my MacBook, but it's from 2015. I think 2-5 years is a bit of an overstatement. PC laptops I've owned in the past have fared much worse over the same time period.

[bluescrn]

The lower end of the spectrum is for phones, going through daily charge/discharge cycles.

While they do a lot of things very well, desiging batteries, storage, and keyboards to be practically non-replaceable and denying any upgradeability (to upsell ludicrously overpriced storage at the initial purchase) is setting an upper limit on how long the device will remain useful for.

[Retric]

> The lower end of the spectrum is for phones, going through daily charge/discharge cycles.

With iPhones you can replace the battery for a small fraction of the cost of a new phone. Plenty of people are using 5+ year old phones without doing so, it really depends on how much time you spend on the device per day and if you’re recharging mid day. Deep discharges drastically shorten lifespan, but again just get a new battery.

[bluescrn]

The true cost of replacing an iPhone battery isn't the quoted dollar amount.

It's the cost of being without your phone for an indeterminate period of time if you have to ship it to Apple for the battery replacement due to not living near an Apple Store.

[torstenvl]

Best Buy is an authorized service provider. It takes an hour or so, maybe two if they're busy. It's much quicker than switching to a new phone.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/iphone-battery-replacement/5634...

[Retric]

You don’t need to go to an Apple Store. However being somewhere near an Apple Store within a ~2 year window covers most people.

Further, replacing a phone is itself painful so there’s no avoiding any inconvenience here.

[bayindirh]

I have an iPhone X. When the battery degraded, I sent it in, the battery and the speaker is replaced, the latter free of charge. I even didn't know that my speaker was damaged to begin with.

The service rep said that newer batteries last longer because they're newer tech (I laughed internally), but it's going strong for 4 (5?) years now, and it's at 83%, so I had to eat my hat about not believing her.

[bluescrn]

Do you trust the quoted capacity figures, though? Or are they there to convince customers that everything's fine, the battery hasn't degraded, it's just software updates and usage patterns that have affected battery life?

Got an almost 4yr old 12 Pro that claims 85%, but doesn't feel like it's holding that much charge, feels like it's due a replacement. Would have done it myself if it was an easy screwdriver-only job rather than requiring heat and special tools.

I'm guessing that internally the capacity starts at somewhat above 100%, to ensure for example that older stock still reports 100% when sold, and the actual drop in capacity could be a fair bit more than the reported figure?

[bayindirh]

> Do you trust the quoted capacity figures, though?

Actually yes. Because even at 83%, my iPhone can last longer than its original battery's brand-new capacity. Also, I'm using Macs for ~15 years now and Coconut Battery's battery reports (which just interfaces with macOS battery information features) were always spot-on.

> but doesn't feel like it's holding that much charge, feels like it's due a replacement.

Actually, an iPhone's daily endurance depends on two things: Network connectivity & quality, and the apps you use. WiFi uses way less battery than cellular to begin with, and some applications "performance improvements and bug fixes" means "we have improved the performance of tracking you while using the app, and fixed the bugs about misreporting usage data". Applications like Instagram are so optimized at tracking its users, it drains my battery faster and heats my phone better than some games.

> to ensure for example that older stock still reports 100% when sold...

Low self discharge batteries are borderline magic. A low-discharge Li-Ion battery sitting at ~40% can sit there for years, if the cell is good. A low discharge Ni-MH battery can sit at ~90% for a decade. I recently opened a new blister of Eneloop AA batteries which were sitting there for a couple of years. All of them were at ~95% charge.

[torstenvl]

Why not just change the battery?

[bluescrn]

Because it's been made intentionally difficult, with significant risk of further damaging the product you're trying to repair. And there's no official supply of replacements.

A battery change shouldn't require heat guns, special suction/clamp tools, or adhesive-dissolving chemicals.

It also shouldn't require being without your device for an unknown period of time to send it in for service.

[fckgw]

Ok, but a battery replacement is possible. You don't just throw it away.

I've gotten battery replacements on various iPhones, iPads and Macbooks and it's a pretty straightforward processes.

[the_snooze]

Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable. Would I like to be able to replace the battery in my Apple devices myself? Absolutely. Is it an unreasonable amount of money and effort to have the Apple Store do it? Not at all. Getting them to replace the battery is no big deal. If there's something to complain about, it's that they (probably intentionally) don't do a good job advertising their battery service.

[DEADMINCE]

> Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable.

Which is pretty reasonable. Giving up little bits of a control at a time is how we end up with no control at all.

[rafram]

There’s just no way very many people would pay for a Mac upgrade program. The iPhone one works by having you pay the monthly installment price for the phone forever. That’s usually in the $30-40/month range, which many people can stomach in exchange for guaranteed new phones every year. But Mac installment prices are $200+ a month. There just isn’t a market for a laptop subscription that costs as much as car insurance.

[nerdjon]

A Mac Upgrade program doesn't have to be the same upgrade cycle, same if they went the route of doing an iPad upgrade program.

It would also help minimize the need to try to future proof your choice. I know when I go to buy a Mac I often way over spec since I am planning for at least 3 or 4 years. That conversation is completely different if I know I am getting an upgrade in 1 or 2 years.

Meanwhile if the Mac Upgrade Program could be, idk a 2 year upgrade plan. Looking at the cheapest 16" M3 Max MBP. Right now that is $291.58 month for 12 months.

If a Mac Upgrade Plan did the same timeline as iPhone where you paid over 2 years but could upgrade after a year that would be about $147.28.

But it could likely be a 3 or 4 year timeline and be even cheaper.

If we look at the lower end it gets even cheaper with the cheapest 16" MBP could be $104 a month. The cheapest 14" MPB could be $66.5 a month.

Keeps going cheaper if you look at the Air. I feel like at that price the market very much exists when the top iPhone is $74.91 a month.

The question is if the numbers make sense on Apple's side.

[pjmlp]

They charge up front with their margins.