[nerdawson]

I have family who let out property in Spain.

They, along with other people in a similar position to them, have all suddenly become experts in smart home tech.

They have video doorbells, motion sensors, door sensors, etc. All so that they can be alerted to any activity immediately, allowing them to act within the exceptionally short eviction window.

The reality on the ground is that these ridiculous policies are widely exploited.

[zrn900]

Yep. Those policies that force the real estate owners to use their properties instead of letting them sit empty and appreciate for profit like in the US are ridiculous. The not-ridiculous policy is allowing them to cripple the entire society for profit by doing the opposite. It works very well.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homes-for-sale-affordable-housi...

[nerdawson]

Perhaps that's the intent of the policy. The actual outcome on the other hand harms people who are using their properties.

- Holidays lets - Standard lets where there's a changeover - Properties for sale - Your own home when you're on holiday

Your comment is completely disconnected from the reality of the situation facing ordinary middle-class people.

Maybe you could argue that squatters need support but subsidising them is the role of the state, not a job for individual citizens.

[zrn900]

> The actual outcome

The actual outcome is that the policy does force people to use their houses and increase the available rental houses.

> ordinary middle-class people.

You seem to have meant 'working-class'. Outside the US nobody calls them 'middle class'. Middle class people in Spain would be white collar professionals who own more than one house. You people are literally making up things about a country that you don't know about.

No. It does not cause issues for the 'working class'. Okupas don't target single home owner working class people. They target at least white collar professionals, and actually much richer aristocrats and investment funds.

> subsidising them is the role of the state, not a job for individual citizens.

That's what you think. Your culture thinks. This is a different society. They think differently.

[nerdawson]

> You people are literally making up things about a country that you don't know about.

I’m not from the US.

I spent 2 years living in Spain.

Are you claiming that the average Spanish citizen believes that a typical person should be responsible for freeloaders rather than the government?

[zrn900]

> I’m not from the US.

Even if you are not, your philosophy seems to be from there. Works out to the same.

> I spent 2 years living in Spain

Yeah that should have given you the past, present and future knowledge of all things about Spain.

> Are you claiming that the average Spanish citizen believes that a typical person should be responsible for freeloaders rather than the government?

Excellent example of how you have been talking about a country without knowing about it. Spaniards dont call them freeloaders. Even using that word means that you are American in mentality even if not geographically. The attitude is that if those people need it and some well-off person ends up with okupas in his second house, no one bats an eye and many even would say 'the bastards deserve it'. And anyone who has an extra house is 'well-off'.

[nerdawson]

I'm merely pointing out that you're assuming ignorance simply because I have a different opinion to you. Having lived there myself, I'd like to think I have something of an understanding of the culture.

Freeloaders, admittedly a charged word, is how I'd view someone who helps themselves to something I've worked to pay for. How is that any different to a mugger stealing your phone or your wallet? After all, they're likely in a worse financial position than you. If you can afford to replace it, let them have at it.

> And anyone who has an extra house is 'well-off'.

I don't want to fall into a strawman here but my interpretation is that you're fine with criminals stealing from someone, as long as they're in a better financial position than you are. It's convenient to imagine that the only people falling victim to this are those who can afford to have their property stolen from them.

[chous]

I don't agree. It's a non-existing problem that the media insists us to convince otherwise, just to force us to pay for useless and absurdly expensive monthly services. Poor people being afraid of other poor people, a classic.

[nerdawson]

I don't doubt the media are prepared to jump on and inflate any problem if it'll drive engagement. That doesn't mean the underlying issue isn't real.

I could offer some anecdotal evidence but that seems pointless. Especially when the stats speak for themselves. It's not just media hype.

[miguelxt]

It may be overblown by media, sure, let's say we agree on that, but I know of at least 3 cases of very close people that have suffered the issue in the last 3 years alone. It may be my social bubble, but I don't think it's a completely fabricated matter.

[diggan]

> It may be overblown by media, sure, let's say we agree on that, but I know of at least 3 cases of very close people that have suffered the issue in the last 3 years alone.

For curiosity's sake, were the affected people owners of multiple properties or was this issue considering their primary residential homes that they were actively living in?

[taopai]

I know no one who had his first home or summer house squatted. No one.

I've lived here all my life.

I know at least 15 okupas who lived +4 years in properties of banks, unused and not finished, which, after eviction, are still unused and unmaintained. What harm did this okupas do? They didn't contributed to rent inflation, so they did some good.

Having property unused and don't having an eye on it is madness. I wouldn't do it. That's common sense. People think that money buy things. Ok, buy a Ferrari and park it outside of a big city and leave it there during a month.

This law is here to protect the right of housing. Some mafias use it? Could be, but this law works to protect real families and the benefits are much greater than the harm that opportunists do abusing it, this organizations doesn't have anything to do with the okupa movement.

[sgfgross]

I couldn't agree more. My parents have an "okupa" and they can't even go talk to her or she can sue them. They also have to pay for her electricity or water, otherwise, she has the right to sue them for "endangerment".

And she wasn't even a tenant. She has been there for 4 months now, and the judicial system simply works against home owners, it's crazy!