[schneems]

The guides are pretty poorly paid. The companies are banking people who love the sport will do it for cheap, and they do. It’s similar to a ski instructor setup. Sometimes the position will come with room and board to help offset the meagre wages.

When I was a broke college kid I tipped my tour guide $20 (in 2005 dollars). The guide will tell you on the trip to tip them. It would be hard not to know.

Most places where tipping is greatly appreciated take into account things like “didn’t bring my wallet on the raft” and will do things like make sure to say goodbye to the group after the come out of a locker room at the end (for example).

I’m pretty sure it wasn’t an accident. If you were in this situation there are plenty of ways to correct the course.

[lotsofpulp]

> If you were in this situation there are plenty of ways to correct the course.

I don’t like the framing of this. The correct course is for the labor seller to request the amount of money they want from the labor buyer. If you want more money for your labor, just say it up front before the tour starts.

It is unfair to spring a surprise charge on someone after you provide a product/service. I would not do it to any of my customers, since I do not want it done to me. Upfront, transparent pricing is how a proper business works.

[schneems]

I feel you’re deliberately missing the point of my story because you personally don’t like tipping.

It’s not a surprise it’s *expected* in that industry. It’s common knowledge. I provided evidence of this above that you’ve chosen to ignore.

It is somewhat funny that in a story with a billionaire and someone struggling to make a living wage, to you, the person being treated unfairly is the billionaire.

[lotsofpulp]

> It’s not a surprise it’s expected in that industry. It’s common knowledge. I provided evidence of this above that you’ve chosen to ignore.

We will have to agree to disagree. In general, I think it is unfair to judge anyone, regardless of their socioeconomic status, for abiding by the explicit terms of a business transaction.

If neither party is under duress, then the seller needs to state their price upfront before providing a product or service, otherwise, it seems stupid to judge a buyer for agreeing to the price.

[schneems]

If you were a billionaire you could:

- buy the company and pay the guides a living wage

- complain to the owner about the tipping policy

- complain to the tour guide about the tipping policy

- explicitly ask about tipping before engaging in a leisure activity using a service economy

- tip anyway but demand the company owner pay back that amount

A galaxy of things that aren’t simply “don’t pay and walk away.” I appreciate your position on tipping but don’t thing Mr. Buffer was applying some higher minded philosophy to the situation (unless you have evidence to the contrary).

Edit: spelling

[seoulmetro]

>If you were in this situation there are plenty of ways to correct the course.

He is correcting the course. The course of the silliness required to expect people to tip for everything because your contract with your employer is bad.

[schneems]

You’ve chosen to miss the point of my story to go on a personal rant against tipping. In the process you’ve also decided that the billionaire needs defending more than the person struggling to make a living wage.

[seoulmetro]

Yes... I commented on the part of your story I wanted to comment on. What's your point?

I didn't decide anything about billionaires anywhere. But if that's the story that keeps you being silly then so be it.

[schneems]

You’ve invalidated my reason for sharing the story in the first place. It feels that you’ve done it intentionally, but I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt. Here’s how I could have shown up and validated your viewpoint instead of arguing because I felt mine wasn’t heard:

Before you go on a tangent try validating what the other person said before. “I can see how really rich people view money differently. As a tangent, I really dislike tipping culture and wish that Warren had bought the rafting company and decided to pay them a living wage instead of doing nothing and not acknowledging the problem”

If you’re struggling you can lean into non violent communication:

- Observe: I see you’re talking about tipping - Emote: it makes me disgusted that regular people are taken advantage of - Need: I wish all tipping was abolished -Request: I want my position to be heard.

> I didn’t decide anything

But your words, lacking this additional context I’ve laid out here do speak to my interpretation because that’s the part of the story I care about, it’s why I shared it and it’s why I labeled the implications of your words as I read them.

[lotsofpulp]

>wish that Warren had bought the rafting company and decided to pay them a living wage instead of doing nothing and not acknowledging the problem”

Warren Buffett is probably the most outspoken rich person to advocate for the government to increase wealth redistribution via increased taxes. He also has probably donated some of the biggest sums in the history of the world to objectively benefit poorer people.

Yet here you are, concluding that Buffett does not acknowledge excessive wealth gaps from the fact that he did not donate money to a specific worker working for a business he paid to receive a service for, or that it was somehow Buffett's responsibility to buy the whole business as a form of charity.

[seoulmetro]

I don't care about your story, that's why I only commented on one sentence alone.

If you don't understand why I am talking about that sentence, then ok?

You seem to care a lot about other people knowing your poor employee and employer arrangement is silly. You shouldn't. Dumb people do things through tradition.