[filleokus]

As a Swede, I've never been so deprived of good coffee as when I was in Italy. So heavily "roasted" (more like burnt or torched) that no taste except maybe tar or char is left. Served either in ant sized cups or with milk to mask the horrendous taste.

No, the Nordic way of light (or medium) roasted coffee prepared in a drip brewer is the only way.

If this breaks into Italy, I will make sure to stay away from it ;-).

[tetris11]

As a Brit dating an Italian, I couldn't agree more. I like to enjoy my coffee, not just drink it for the effects. I will never understand the tiny intense espresso + double sugar combo as a way to finish every meal. I get palpatations just thinking about it.

That being said, I'm really enjoying weak watery coffee these days. Its sweeter, you taste the aroma more, and it's a nice slow high in the morning that teases you gently into a focused work mindset, instead of tense grinning-neurotic mess I used to be. Also, I can sleep better at night.

[spyke112]

Fun fact: there’s less caffeine in espresso than in filter coffee. [1]

[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo

[TeMPOraL]

I thought espresso is something you order in quantity of 2 or 4, to be mixed into the regular coffee so it works. That's what I always do.

[cassepipe]

And don't get me started on the "al dente" (understand not properly cooked) pasta cult

[tetris11]

YES. I'm sorry, but I like my pasta floppy please. The sheer bloated feeling I get after eating an otherwise perfectly prepared dish is nothing to joke about.

[krzyk]

For me espresso is the best coffee. I didn't like coffee before I tasted espresso on my first trip to Italy 15 years ago.

Nowadays most of our offices in Poland have espresso machines, so I can taste it here also.

What is funny is that when I was in our main office in US, they didn't have espresso machine, just some strange "coffee machine" that poured some coffee-like liquid.

I also don't get the big buckets of coffee premade and poured to the mugs in some traditional American diners.

In Poland the traditional way to prepare coffee is called "turkish style" (po turecku) - you put one or two spoons of ground coffee in glass or mug and pour hot water over it. I don't like that too much, but it tastes better than the US made version of coffee.

[brnt]

I hate having to clean the crud from the mugs of my Polish in-laws. I have a perfectly fine French press!

[oytis]

The audacity! Sure you have nice trains and welfare system, but claiming superiority over Italian coffee culture? I would prefer an espresso made on an Italian gas station at 2AM to a fancy Swedish roastery any time.

[globular-toast]

Neither Swedish nor Italian, but I completely agree. It took me a long time to realise I don't actually like espresso. There is this perception that espresso is "better" than other coffee. I guess it's the shiny machines, the weird noises they make and the fact that most people can't make it at home. I always thought that home methods like cafetière, drip/filter etc. were like poor imitations of the real deal.

I've recently learnt that most Starbucks have filter coffee as an off-menu item. It's still Starbucks but it's so much better than their "Americano". Unfortunately many will refuse to make it for you (presumably because it's more effort).

It's not that espresso can't be good, but for most places this is the cheap, low effort, coffee-on-demand. And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same.

Also, it really annoys me that if you order two drinks (like a café con leche in Spain) they'll split a double shot into two cups with one getting clearly more coffee than the other. It's a 50% chance you're going to get the weak brown milk.

[david-gpu]

> And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same.

Disclaimer: I'm a Spaniard.

Most cafes in Spain serve a particularly noxious form of burnt coffee called "torrefacto" [0], which is made by mixing sugar with the beans while they are being excessively roasted. This introduces additional bitterness and ash to what would have already been overly roasted beans.

For a country where coffee is often consumed multiple times a day, and where there are cafes in every corner, Spain has disappointingly terrible coffee.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrefacto

[tecleandor]

Well, it's a post war reminiscence that thankfully is decreasing and has less presence in the market every day.

It made sense back in the day, in that postwar economy, as the sugar roasting process reduced its price and lengthened its shelf life. Mixing or even substituting in completely with chicory (depending on your wealth, or lack of it) was very common, and some old people still do it nowadays.

But still tastes burnt, so of course people do lots of sugar and milk on their coffee :p.

BTW, it's OK if any of you don't like coffee, or like it sugary, with milk, powdered, or in any coffee based drink that you like. I might be snobby with my coffee, but you can drink wathever do like. And in summer I always fancy a cold coffee with tigernut horchata (popular around Valencia, different from the Mexican one that's made with rice).

[david-gpu]

> I might be snobby with my coffee, but you can drink whatever you like.

Sure, I agree. My disappointment with torrefacto is just a personal opinion.

For example, I think chicory is great, and so is barley (mugicha). I would very much rather drink those instead of torrefacto.

[tecleandor]

Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding, wasn't pointing at you, but just saying it aloud for everyone. Mugicha is great by the way, and now you say it, I forgot that I had some bags! Thanks!

[simiones]

Maybe that explains an experience I had when I was at Kubecon in Valencia a few years ago. The free coffee was some of the worst coffee I've ever had. It was filtered coffee, so not even very strong, but very bitter and tasted deeply burned. It was hard to drink, and every attendee seemed to agree. The huge line at a Nespresso counter was also pretty good proof of the general feeling about the coffee.

I'd rather have the brownish water they called coffee in the US office any day.

[tecleandor]

I was around there! In caterings is even worse, they're using that burnt coffee in huge unmaintained drippers making something very similar to airplane coffee. It's weird to have that burn-but-wattery coffee. You can for sure find better coffee in Valencia with no effort.

[simiones]

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all coffee in Valencia is bad, not at all. I had a chance to visit the city and found some really good coffee too. It was just enlightening to understand why that particular coffee tasted so bad.

[dceddia]

> I've recently learnt that most Starbucks have filter coffee as an off-menu item

And it’s faster to order, too! At least at the Starbucks’ I’ve been to, the barista/cashier will usually turn around and pour it immediately. Other drinks (even iced/cold brew) go into the queue.

[robin_reala]

Let me guess: you’re from Stockholm? Because you’re certainly not from my end of Sweden; until I moved here I’ve never tasted such a heavily roasted coffee as skånerost.

[ykonstant]

I also found that people in Uppsala drink comically dark, over-concentrated coffee. However, there is a fantastic little shop there selling some excellent (if very expensive) beans; if I remember the name I'll post it.

[unwind]

Could it be ... Uppsala kafferosteri [1]? But they seem to specialize in just that, dark roasts, so perhaps not.

[1]: https://uppsalakafferosteri.se/

[ykonstant]

It is Arrenius & Company.

[abc123abc123]

I find swedish coffee horrible! Italian coffee and espresso all the way, for the win!

But the worst coffee, has to be the brown colored bland fluid called coffee in the US!

[ryan_lane]

The US is a large place. Espresso in the US has likely had some of the most innovation in the world over the last 20 years. If you didn't find excellent coffee in the US then you were either in the middle of nowhere, or you didn't try.

Similar with Sweden. Stockholm has many excellent coffee shops. Maybe you need to put more effort in.