[bambax]

There are two big families of drones: FPV and non-FPV (sometimes called cinematic). Flying non-FPV, GPS stabilized drones (like the DJI Mavic family of drones) requires almost no training, you just put the drone in the air and it stays there, waiting for your instructions.

Flying FPV (in acro mode) has a steep learning curve (but is, arguably, much more fun). The way to learn is to use a proper simulator. The most versatile and popular one is Liftoff and costs around $20, but there are many others, including free ones. You should also buy a dedicated controller since normal game controllers don't work well (the throttle joystick needs to stay where it is instead of returning to center). Dedicated drone controllers can be found around $40-50 used.

And then off you go! Be prepared to spend at least 20 hours on a sim before you can fly IRL (it took me around 100 hours to really be comfortable). It's surprising how well the learned skills transfer from the simulator to the real thing.

[tekdude]

One other note about simulators is that they include PID tuning (at least Liftoff does), which can be an incredibly time consuming and tedious process with a new quad if you're new to it. It's better to learn that process in a sim where you can change values and see how the results affect behavior right away. In the real world, you typically have to fly back, land, plug the quad into your laptop/phone, change the values, sync, unplug, and take off again.

[mosfets]

Definitely agree. FPVSIM allows for PID tuning as well. You can learn a lot on how they affect drone dynamics by playing with the PID values once you know the basics of PID algorithm.

[NicoJuicy]

What dedicated controllers would you recommend? Is there a FPV that works for both drones in real life and in games? Any ones in particular you like?

[matthew-wegner]

Some replies to this already, but quick notes:

* "Controller" isn't used much as a term, when you start looking around. You'll see things listed under "transmitter" or "radio"

* The majority of FPV transmitters use OpenTX or EdgeTX software (EdgeTX is newer and a fork of OpenTX). Both of these support plugging the transmitter in to a host computer over USB, where it can appear as a HID joystick

* ExpressLRS (ELRS) is an open source radio protocol, with 2.4ghz and 900mhz versions. 2.4ghz is a denser waveforms, so better latency, but less penetration (unless you are going loooooong range, default to 2.4ghz). If you buy a radio today, get one with ELRS built in

* ELRS transmitters include Bluetooth. They can act as a BLE controller to a host computer, for wireless gamepad use: https://oscarliang.com/expresslrs-bluetooth-joystick/

* And there is a 3rd option for more convenience, since both HID over USB and BLE wirelessly require a tiny bit of menu fiddling: A dedicated simulator dongle. This acts as a full ELRS receiver, so you would just turn on your radio within range and play the simulator: https://www.getfpv.com/squid-stick-wireless-usb-simulator-do...

And finally, on radios themselves:

* The big split is between smaller "gamepad" style transmitters and full-size box transmitters. The larger versions usually have more inputs than you would use, for other radio control hobbyists (wings/planes/etc)

* Radiomaster is a solid recommendation. Check out the Pocket as an intro radio ($65 USD), and then the Boxer as a step up ($140 USD base, or $260 with all-metal gimbals and upgrades)

* Unless you have a strong reason to, like someone is gifting you a pile of quadcopter hardware using a different protocol, go with ELRS 2.4ghz built in

[madhato]

ELRS is fine but Crossfire is considered by many to be the superior radio link. The TBS Tango 2 is a great transmitter and comes with Crossfire built in.

[hylaride]

Ever since ELRS 3 came out, I haven't met many people that argue that Crossfire is a superior radio link. The fact that ELRS 2.4GHz has gotten to 100KM and even now ELRS 900MHz RX's and TX's are widely available still gives that option, too. The smaller antennas for 2.4GHz are so much more convenient, as well.

Also, ELRS has modes to go to higher refresh rates than crossfire in 900MHz (200Hz vs 150Hz for crossfire). ELRS is also being rapidly developed(https://github.com/ExpressLRS/ExpressLRS/releases/) and has Gemini dual-channel modes (including cross-band support that doesn't have hardware for it yet), whereas crossfire (or TBS in general) has barely done anything.

And ELRS is cheaper (as it's open source) because of multiple hardware vendors and is more widely available as TBS has always had rather poor inventory management (their site now shows as unavailable for many components).

Don't get me wrong, crossfire was an absolute game changer when it came out, but TBS has really stagnated over the past few years.

[rhombocombus]

This is my understanding of the state of the art in transmitter technology too. ELRS equipment and software offer a number of advantages over every other protocol I have used. It’s easier to pair and configure, it offers robust connectivity even in lossy signal environments, and its range exceeds that of any video downlink on any of my aircraft.

[hylaride]

The one exception to your statement is "easier to pair". ELRS has historically been more of a pain to pair and update than crossfire.

Crossfire has OTA updates from the TX to the RX's, so you just need to update the transmitter and updates can then be pushed to RX's next time you connect. On crossfire, the button on the TX's always allowed for easy push-button binding.

ELRS was a pain having to flash and update binding phrases via wifi, which often had poor wifi chips on cheaper receivers. You often needed to take your RX, update it near a computer, update the binding phrase, update your TX, update the binding phrase on it. You had to do this for each RX individually (still do for updates).

3.4, released just last week, now allows for push-button binding on RX's (the button was originally reserved for recover modes on boot).

However, once you're configured and bound, ELRS is technically better at every turn. If they figure out a way to get OTA updates (harder for them as there's dozens of different hardware vendors with diferent designs and limited flash space on them) to RX's, there's no reason to do crossfire. The only remaining issue with ELRS is that there are bad vendors with poorer quality hardware, but it's only an occasional problem.

[NicoJuicy]

Thanks, that's excellent info!

[bambax]

I use the DJI Remote 2. It's a little expensive at $150 new / $100 used, but it's justified if you want to use it with a DJI video system in the future (Caddx Vista or DJI O3), or the Avata (but not Avata 2...)

But there are controllers from BetaFPV that are much cheaper. A friend of mine just got started with the BetaFPV Radio Lite 3 ($60 new) and is very happy with it.

Edit: RC2 -> Remote 2.

[05]

You probably meant DJI Remote 2. DJI RC2 is the one Mavics use.

Anyway, I just wanted to warn anyone on the market against either DJI or BetaFPV controllers - DJI ones only work with drones that have O3 on them so if you want to fly a whoop you're going to buy another controller. And there's an issue where when your video link to the goggles breaks, your controller is offline for a couple seconds - that's all it takes to lose a drone when flying long range. Not being able to react to video loss by gaining altitude is Not a Good Thing(TM).

Regarding BetaFPV: First, their gimbals are crap. Their build quality is crap as well. Oh, and it doesn't run EdgeTX, doesn't work properly with its own ELRS module when flashed to ELRS v3 and doesn't have a screen so that when you lose your drone good luck using telemetry RSSI to locate it.. Radiomaster Pocket is much better value for the same money

[bambax]

Yes thanks for the correction, edited.

DJI remotes work with Caddx Vista as well (the predecessor to O3); those are digital video systems that offer much better quality than analog.

I have no experience with BetaFPV remotes, but I know they're cheap...

[05]

> DJI remotes work with Caddx Vista as well

Well, you're technically correct (the best kind). They work with first gen VTXes when they're upgraded to the V01.01 firmware. The catch is that if you upgrade your V1/V2 Goggles will no longer work with those VTXes.. And now there are Goggles 3 that aren't even compatible with O3 VTX yet, and it's 50/50 on whether or not they'll work with first gen - it's all a pretty big mess compatibility wise :)

[maicro]

There are a lot of options out there, but from what I understand most of the common FPV controllers you'll see around will work as a HID when connected to a computer over USB.

I personally have a Team BlackSheep Tango 2 - though I haven't been flying as much as I would like, and have done little simulator time, it's worked fine for both.

If you want to get into the hobby in general, look up Joshua Bardwell on youtube - a lot of great information, including a variety of controller reviews, simulator reviews, and general "here's how to get started" videos. There are of course others, but Bardwell is the only one I'm actually subscribed to (not that I'm any great metric).

EDIT: for a lot of great information, see my sibling comment from Matthew.

[wepple]

I’d avoid the DJI controller if you want to truly get into FPV. Eventually you’ll want to fly non-DJI quads (eg the o3 air units are too heavy for whoops, so you’ll be analog or HDZero) so stick with ELRS.

The arguably best all rounder controller at a decent price point is the radiomaster boxer at about $99. Their pocket model is only $55 and super compact, but isn’t really full sized.

[coldtea]

>Eventually you’ll want to fly non-DJI quads

If you do FPV for fun, maybe. If you do it for video needs you'll most likely getting a drone, usually DJI, and sticking with it.

[saidinesh5]

Even if it is just for fun, having a more powerful and a separate controller - that isn't tied to the video system is very valuable. If DJI signal gets lost, you simply punch out or trigger return to home using your ELRs controller.. and know that the quad will be safe..

[ilikeatari]

Interesting, I am just getting into hobby and it looks like not many are flying dji for racing, some fly dji air unit ( just the video cam for video tx/rx but drone hardware rarely for freestyle. Even for cine dji does not dominate. What’s really cool is that a lot of people build and modify their drones as flying acro can lead to a lot of crashes:-)

[wepple]

DJI make the best easy to use quads that are basically GoPros that can be positioned anywhere in three dimension space at command. If you have a vlog about how you’re going off grid or hiking the Appalachian trail, that’s what you should use.

For true FPV, the DJI quads are way too limited in many ways and are not exceptional at anything - they’re a solid high-end Toyota Corolla.

The DJI video system is very good, and does make its way into a lot of custom FPV quads. But it’s very heavy and high latency (also, just as bad: variable latency), so never used for racing. And it’s also too heavy for smaller aircraft. It’s also more expensive than all alternatives, once you get past about 3 builds.

[mosfets]

DJI is not very good in terms of end to end latency which are necessary for racing. They are good with packed techs, but racing market is too small for them.

[coldtea]

>Interesting, I am just getting into hobby and it looks like not many are flying dji for racing, some fly dji air unit ( just the video cam for video tx/rx but drone hardware rarely for freestyle. Even for cine dji does not dominate. What’s really cool is that a lot of people build and modify their drones as flying acro can lead to a lot of crashes:-)

Yeah, as I said for FPV and for non-video, people fly other stuff.

But for non-FPV and also for video (meaning the millions doing: content creators, news, advertising, corporate, event videos, etc - don't know what Hollywood uses) typically use DJI.

[wepple]

Depends what type of video, doesn’t it? I’m surely biased but whenever I see people working on high-end film sets they’re using serious cinelifters, and even for property filming you typically see cinewhoops, and for action sport (motocross, drifting, etc) you’ll never see a DJI

[coldtea]

Not talking about Hollywood or high end film sets. Or something like a Nike or Superbowl ad, which has the budget of a small movie.Those can use anything, even real life helicopters. Also not familiar what they use for sports (another special case).

But for millions doing content creation (professionally), news, ads, events, and such, I see DJI dominating. Again, I mean the non-FPV space (unfamiliar with that).

[bambax]

Content creators tend to use FPV more and more, because it lets them do tricks and "spectacular" shots not possible otherwise. But in many cases, even if the drone itself isn't DJI (and it usually isn't, for now), the video system is DJI (O3).

[05]

If H.R. 2864 [1] passes, we're all going to have to fly non-DJI quads ..

[1] https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/118/hr2864

[saidinesh5]

The drone controllers usually have more resolution than your typical PlayStation controllers. They can get recognised as USB joystick anyway.

If you prefer game pad style controllers, you can use radiomaster pocket/Zorro depending on your budget.. ELRS version.

[mosfets]

+1 on the controllers resolution part. Just add to it, gamepads usually do things like dynamic frame rate for power saving reasons, these features are not the good if you do fly drones for competitions. Good to get a OpenTX/EdgeTX based controllers, which offers 1Khz frame rate in newer versions.

[tylergetsay]

I bought a $300 fpv kit with small drone, goggles, and controller that worked in the sims. Emax tinyhawk i believe. Small enough to fly indoors

[btreecat]

Yes. Look into radios from radiomaster with ELRS or multi protocol hardware.

They have USB ports and can be plugged in and detected as a joystick.

[mosfets]

Checkout Jumper too, they are the biggest competitor of radiomaster, might offer better price with similar quality.

[the__alchemist]

Radiomaster Zorro. This is a matter of taste, but I don't understand the form factor of the rectangular ones!

[cjonas]

I was able to fly the DJI avata in full manual mode with maybe only 4 hours in a sim. I'm not sure if that's because it just "clicked" or if the avata is just way easier than other FPV drones. I definitely think the ability to exit FPV with a click of a button and it's crazy durability have allowed me to be comfortable taking risks, which has made me a better pilot.

[th0ma5]

It is not quite the same as FPV acro and has some additional safety features

[the__alchemist]

Great point. Using Liftoff and similar is a game changer. Flying in acro mode is something where you will crash repeatedly at first. (At least I did... in Liftoff thankfully!) Then after a relatively short time, the controls will be intuitive, it will feel easy, and you don't forget. Like riding a bicyle is a perfect analogy.

I think 20 hours is excessive. I'd say 30 mins to 2 hours is fine, depending on the user. The most dramatic learning will happen in the first 10 mins or so.

[meheleventyone]

Depends on what you intend to do IRL if it's just fly around then a couple of hours in acro will get people up to the point where they can bimble about and sort of land but will easily get way out of their depth.

[MrFantastic]

Velocidrone $20 is the most popular sim with the pros. It's designed to be the most accurate at as cost of graphic detail.

They have open races every week.

I can place in the top 300 sometimes.

You can see the FPV of any of the races. The fastest pilots fly so fast it's insane. It's hard for me to comprehend how they can even comprehend what they are seeing.

They will fly though a 3 gate ladder(aka corkscrew) in 1.5 seconds.

[ffsm8]

There is a reason why these fpvs are so successful in the Ukraine/Russian war. Much quicker than a regular soldiers reaction. And it's over.

[sizzle]

Curious, do pilots learn to fly using sims?

[Karrot_Kream]

Private Pilot training tends to be in aircraft but when training for expensive, hard-to-book aircraft which require special certifications to fly there's often sim training involved. Sim training is also useful if you're about to fly an aircraft that's similar but not the same as an aircraft you're familiar with.

[mosfets]

Absolutely. Nowadays sims get more and more realistic and you can definitely learn a lot from them and transfer a big chunk of the learning to real drones.

[kjkjadksj]

Commercial pilots are sent to the sim for training about once a year. Hard to train for a bird strike otherwise.