Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by supportengineer 765 days ago
>> $13,078.58 to fix a quarter-size hole

Years ago I read this advice "Find an under-served market and serve it cheaply."

There's an opportunity here for a 3rd party to service and repair Teslas at a reasonable price.

7 comments

There are plenty of reports about how Tesla has made this difficult. Tesla parts are difficult to obtain even for Tesla’s own service centers: there are frequent months-long waits. “Certified” non-Tesla shops get parts at a lower priority, non-certified shops simply cannot order most parts (just basic stuff like bumpers)

0: https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/s/fkcTScUDpL

Maybe someone needs to found the Framework Computer, Inc, of electric cars.
Seriously, this should happen sooner than later.

We're quickly entering a world where car manufacturers are trying to extract profit from subscriptions (see: BMW heated seats, Toyota remote start, Ford BlueCruise, etc). On top of that, most cars are now shipping with an encrypted CAN bus, which lands us right back in the same "trusted computing" quagmire as every other consumer electronic device.

I have the skillset and network to design, prototype and source just about any part or assembly. If anyone wants to do this, seriously, reach out.
Framework is great, but their existence doesn't change the harmful antirepair practice of other companies. Similarly, the ratio of servicable cars on the road won't change the fact that offering less service is cheaper, and forcing first-party repair can even be profitable.
> their existence doesn't change the harmful antirepair practice of other companies

Their existence doesn't but their success does. If and when Framework becomes large enough to steal a significant portion of marketshare from less repair friendly companies, they will adapt or die.

I wish you were right, but historically I don't think anything suggests a change. There has always been a market for repairable and rugged laptops, but their market share loses out to expensive and easily replaceable machines. Skimping on repairability lets you focus on some other feature that you can market instead, which will almost always seem sexier than "the topcase costs less than $500 to replace".

There are success stories here; IBM and Panasonic didn't struggle to find customers for the Thinkpad and Toughbook respectively. But the market was never forced to "adapt or die" as you put it; in fact, the rugged and repairable machines were now the ones that had to adapt. How can you compete against a monopoly on repair pricing?

What if you had 30k or 10k teslas hanging around for parts though?
Software lock ala apple?
Interesting, I've seen people using tesla drive motors in electric conversions, so maybe that's easier if they're controlled by some 3rd party hardware, because you're just fighting the motor not the whole car as a system.
Definitely, and even with some legitimate reasons. The inverter and the motor are linked by a calibration.
This is one of the reasons I disliked Tesla from the outset. Other manufacturers have various levels of challenge on repairs, but from the very moment they released the model S, they have been extremely aggressive at making any sort of third party repair impossible. Even connecting to the vehicle diagnostics got the vehicle to phone home and people at Tesla to actively subvert your attempt to learn or diagnose anything. For as much shit as we talk about "being green", making a car harder to fix (and thus much more likely to just get totalled and scrapped when it could ostensibly be fixed and serviced) is about as "anti-green" and anti-consumer as I could imagine.
>>Soon, a body shop found a quarter-size hole in the undercarriage he hadn’t seen before, which led to revelations of deeper issues inside. “The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him. Because the hole was “exterior damage,” it wasn’t covered by the warranty, which meant a $13,078.58 repair bill.

Looks like selective quoting to me, the quarter sized hole was under the battery pack, which was damaged.

Since the hole was punched upward from the ground, it counted as exterior damage.

So $13,078.58 to fix the hole and battery pack issue.

That 13k to fix the battery pack is the main problem. Repairs on a Tesla are a lot more expensive than repairs on an average car.

That makes a used Tesla a less attractive option, and makes any Tesla more expensive to insure. In the long term that also makes new Tesla's less attractive. Low resale value and high insurance costs both increase the monthly cost of owning one, which is the number the majority of consumers will look at.

How much does a battery pack cost to manufacture? How much does it cost at retail? Also there is the under armor which was damaged as well.

What else is required to remove and reinstall?

I could see a new pack costing about 10k retail, probably 7 mfg costs.

To remove and install a new one:

0: Lift car on Jacks.

1: Disconnect old pack connector at car.

2: Discharge old pack

3: Remove old under-armor panel

4: Remove old pack from car

5: Install new pack in car

6: Install new under-armor panel

7: Reconnect new pack to car

8: Run diagnostic tests

That looks like a 3 to 4 hour job minimum, with specialized equipment dealing with high voltage to me.

I think 13k is not a bad price at all.

Yes, 13k may be a perfectly fine price for the issue.

But that means a Tesla does not have as low a cost of ownership as people originally thought. It doesn't need oil changes, but now you have to deal with a low resale value and high insurance costs. The savings on fuel and mechanical maintenance may be lost to that.

IDK if people are buying Teslas for their cost of ownership, but yeah if they are they are in for a shock.
It's not just a quarter size hole. It's a quarter size hole in the high voltage battery pack, which is indeed extremely dangerous and needs specialized equipment and skill to replace.
I would imagine there’s a major blocker here or it would already exist.

My bets are on supply chain or Tesla refusing to honor warranties if you get work done elsewhere.

Indeed, if there's no second source OEM provider of compatible Tesla parts, then the reason for stupid expensive Tesla repairs is simply that Tesla makes more profit/share price improvement from selling a new car over repairing an already sold car.

At least until people start to consider them unrepairable.

Tesla can void your warranty at any time. Tesla can remotely disable features on their vehicles. It's a tough job repairing something that you then cannot guarantee in any way.
Sounds like the first job for any repair shop will be disabling Tesla's root access!
Which, like, someone should sue Tesla for violating the CFAA when they do that. If you bought the car and you own it, Tesla remoting in and changing things on your car is a CFAA violation.
So can Apple, but people get iPhones fixed all the time. Of course, a car is 40-80X more expensive than a phone, so stakes are lower for someone seeking out a non-licensed repair shop.

But it probably comes down to right to repair, and can Tesla be shown as impeding this right. My guess, is yes. But I also think, as usual, the authorities are reluctant to penalize Elon. He makes such a stink about such things, they'd rather penalized John Deere.

Can apple really reach into your device and just shut it off remotely? Cause tesla can.
Yes. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102541

> With Activation Lock, your Apple ID password or device passcode is required before anyone can turn off Find My, erase your Mac, or reactivate and use your Mac. Even if you erase your Mac remotely, Activation Lock can continue to deter others from reactivating your Mac without your permission. All you need to do is keep Find My turned on and remember your Apple ID and password.

It wasn't to fix the hole, it was damage to the battery that wasn't covered by the warranty because of the hole.
From Teslas own service website:

> Only new Tesla parts, Tesla-approved fasteners, and Tesla-approved structural adhesives must be used when performing repairs on Tesla vehicles.

https://service.tesla.com/docs/BodyRepair/Body_Repair_Proced...

What’s not clear: how much are those “new Tesla parts”?

Tesla uses some scary language to make it seem like they are the only ones that can repair their product.

They have taken a page out of the Apple playbook.

> Tesla does not allow the use of any used, recycled, alternative, aftermarket, or third-party replacement parts. Use only new parts ordered directly from Tesla.

I didn't read all the was too the fine print, but these statements are patently nonsense. Maybe doing the things they don't like will void your warranty or something, but adhesives don't get stickier just because Tesla decrees it.

They may well advise you on what to do, or even try to fuck up your car's software if they detect you've defied them, but they can't just issue commands or make statements about the impossibility of letting someone else fix your bumper.