[the_af]

I agree with you a fair assessment is warranted. Dismissing the downsides of remote work leads to unrealistic expectations/conversations.

That said,

> You can get more out of an office worker who lacks intrinsic motivation than a similar remote worker.

Is this because for an office worker it's harder to disguise the lack of motivation? Or are they pressured into going through the motions even if they don't feel like it? I wonder if this is a good thing at all.

Let me explain: as a fully remote worker, there are days I don't feel like working. On those days, I'll slack off. My work won't suffer because on the longer term I'll achieve my objectives; I'm just not wasting time pretending to work when I don't feel like it. My mental health is better as a result. This wouldn't be possible if I was at the office, because this isn't a socially acceptable mode of working.

[toomuchtodo]

As a remote worker and manager, I see you. When folks on my teams are not feeling it, I tell them to just let me know they're taking the rest of the day or the day and I've got it covered. People are not machines to grind widgets out all day long, some days will be very productive, some days will be useless. That's okay. I'm optimizing over long periods of time. I care about the mental health and wellbeing of those who report to me, and I will absolutely help them find work elsewhere if it isn't working where we're at.

None of this work really matters in the end, so no point in getting too bent out of shape about it. The work needs to get done to a defined standard, but overly focusing on high levels of consistent "engagement"? I don't drink the koolaid and neither should the folks who report to me. We show up, we grind, we go home. And that's fine, that's what the money is for.

[imagineerschool]

"None of this work really matters in the end"

I look forward to this not being true

[toomuchtodo]

I wish you meaningful work if you can find it. Most work is not; self awareness and full context is important in how we operate when interacting with others professionally.

If you die tomorrow, are fired, or laid off, you will be replaced. If your company fails, you will move on to the next job. Per the US BLS, approximately 20% of new businesses fail during the first two years of being open, 45% during the first five years, and 65% during the first 10 years. Only 25% of new businesses make it to 15 years or more. Broadly speaking, ~90% of startups fail. So, I also wish you luck.

Very few of us are saving or improving actual lives or legitimately changing the world for the better (deep gratitude to those folks). The rest of us are not. I am sorry to be the messenger.

[ryandrake]

Realistic and experienced comment. Junior folks with stars in your eyes, please read this.

[imagineerschool]

The legitimately world changing life improving work I do somehow always happens to be unpaid. Funny how that works :)

[toomuchtodo]

Knowing this is half the battle :) money first, then meaning.

[dave881]

I think this has more to do with workers who are only interested in doing the least amount of work they can get away with.

Even highly motivated workers are going to have off days that are less productive, but the average level of output will be higher.

Low performing / marginal workers, in my experience, tend to do their best work when they feel like they are being observed. Providing that sort of motivation is more difficult when they are remote.

[Closi]

Yes - also there are lots of reasons for why people are low performing.

Office environments can take some of those reasons (e.g. certain distractions) away.

[johnnyanmac]

> it's harder to disguise the lack of motivation? Or are they pressured into going through the motions even if they don't feel like it?

As a personal example, it's the latter for me. If I'm having an off day WFH, it's a lot easier to delay meetings or shuffle things around than in an office. I've pushed some meetings back, slept in a few more hours and make up that time either later in the evening or on some other day. Or on the other end may cancel later meetings to just relax later on if my brain is scambled. A lot harder to justify in person. You're there, why can't we meet? why are you nodding off? etc.

>I wonder if this is a good thing at all.

Probably not, but modern work places aren't really designed around "what's good long term for employees". Especially not the US where we barely have vacation days, a lot of passive (or active) aggression around the recent-ish ma/paternity leaves, complaints of burnout are seen as a weakness instead of a proper problem to resolve.

They are fine churning through you in 2 years, laying you off, and training fresh talent later. Even if that approach is horribly unsustainable for building talent and increasing efficiency.

[resonious]

I think in the best case scenario, a person being physically together with their team will genuinely feel like working more often than they would if they were alone in their room.

I also agree with you that people in the office are more susceptible to straining themselves due to social pressure.

I'm not sure how these two balance out. It probably depends on the specific people.