[lispisok]

I had the thought there are gonna be some people on these drugs who will still find a way to have bad diets that keeps them fat and unhealthy. Since they have less appetite instead of a sandwich and a milkshake they will skip to the milkshake only.

[akgoel]

When I was on Ozempic, I just didn't want the milkshake. It rewires all reward centers.

[odiroot]

If they invent something like this but for procrastination, they'd get a Nobel prize.

[galangalalgol]

It is called dexamphetamine. Or more more commonly these days, lysdexamphetamine.

[fooker]

Adderall is used pretty effectively for this.

[aleksiy123]

Adderall and Vyvanse?

[dpig_]

Anecdotally, those don't cure procrastination. They mostly cure issues with consistency and throughput once the task has begun. Starting the task is still the same hill to climb as it was before.

[someplaceguy]

Oh God, imagine the self-, peer, and top-down pressure to take that, both for students and working adults.

[MadnessASAP]

No need to imagine, there's a reason Adderall, Vyvanse, and just about any amphetamine are banned in Japan.

[spirit557]

You cant take these drugs forever afaik. Do they have permanent effects? It's just absurd to me the world has come to the point that we need these drugs in the first place but it makes total sense when you look at America for example. Awash in hyperpalatable processed "food" and corrupt food guidelines, a medical industry that "manages" chronic metabolic preventable disease but never cures it when probably 99% of cases could be reversed naturally. Big pharma and big food play their roles. Just insanity.

[JumpCrisscross]

> absurd to me the world has come to the point that we need these drugs in the first place

GLP-1 looks increasingly like a miracle drug. We see problems of addiction and obesity skyrocketing across the developing world. It’s not cost free, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the majority of America, China and India becoming potatoes.

When vitamins were discovered, there was similar moralising about there being no free lunch. With the benefit of hindsight those concerns were misfounded. Perhaps Ozempic has terrible side effects that haven’t been noticed since 2005. Given that timeline, however, we can confidently say someone obese taking the drug is better off with it.

> never cures it

I have friends who took it, lost weight and then stopped. The rebound was real but nowhere close to what they lost. (The lifestyle changes also mostly stuck.) For all practical purposes, their fatness was cured.

> when probably 99% of cases could be reversed naturally

Scientifically unfounded.

[spirit557]

Here's some more reading about reversing type 2 diabetes naturally. The current paradigm that one requires chronic disease management for the rest of their life is entirely false.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7400171/#:~:tex.... "Although treating type 2 diabetes complications is of utmost importance to protect organ damage, it is now increasingly recognized that even the more ambitious goal of diabetes remission may be possible [6]. Thus, while there is little doubt that healthy lifestyle habits are the cornerstone of prevention of type 2 diabetes, they could also be used as an effective treatment to even potentially reverse type 2 diabetes. In this regard, the interesting narrative review published by Hallberg SJ and colleagues [7] has summarized the evidence that type 2 diabetes reversal is possible with the use of three different approaches: bariatric surgery, low-calorie diets and carbohydrate restriction."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10716578/ "Unlocking the Potential of Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus Remission"

[spirit557]

Reversing type 2 diabetes naturally is not scientifically unfounded at all. Look online in the right places and there is tons of people that have been able to stop taking all their insulin and metformin etc by fasting, compressing feeding windows, cutting out all carbs.

Even the ADA had to finally acknowledge this is possible in a statement back in 2021: https://diabetes.org/newsroom/international-experts-outline-...

It's not such a crazy idea really - You consume so many carbohydrates that you overproduce insulin and become insensitive to it in a vicious cycle. The more you fast, stay in a ketogenic metabolic status, reduce carbs and/or go zero carb, compress your feeding windows the more insulin sensitive you become.

There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Your body can maintain your glucose needs by converting proteins into glucose. Fat and proteins are essential. Glucose is not it can be produce by liver.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Reversing type 2 diabetes naturally is not scientifically unfounded at al

It’s absolutely possible. It’s unfounded that it even medically works for 99% of people, and that is while ignoring the obvious compliance problem.

> stay in a ketogenic metabolic status

Want to point out the naturalistic fallacy in assuming putting your body into an extreme condition for the long term is less harmful than a drug. (I say this as someone who intermittently fasts.)

[Eisenstein]

It is absurd to you because you don't constantly crave food. It is easy for someone to say 'just don't eat so much' when they don't want to, but it is hard to not do something when you want it constantly and have access to it. Next time you are really thirsty, just don't drink anything -- then imagine something like that all the time.

> when probably 99% of cases could be reversed naturally.

What does that even mean? We aren't 'naturally' exposed to such calorie dense foods all the time and aren't 'naturally' supposed to be able to get any food with so little effort. What is natural about processed foods?

[PierceJoy]

On the contrary, most weight loss doctors consider these drugs to be like statins. You take them for the rest of your life. The number of people who maintain healthy habits after stopping them is shockingly low.

[JumpCrisscross]

> number of people who maintain healthy habits after stopping them is shockingly low

Source?

[PierceJoy]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35441470/

[copx]

>It's just absurd to me the world has come to the point that we need these drugs

I agree. People did not need these drugs in the past but instead of fixing the social and economic structures which caused the obesity epidemic we tell people to take drugs to manage.

Oh, and take Adderall so you can focus. Again, nobody needed this in the past.

And Xanax to manage the anxiety people did not use to have either.

Feel unhappy and alone? They will make a pill for that too.

"Brave New World" turned out to be even more prophetic than "1984".

[someplaceguy]

May I ask about your experience since leaving Ozempic compared to before you started taking it?

I'm not considering taking Ozempic nor am I aware of anyone who has, so I'm curious.

[nvahalik]

I haven't taken it, but my wife has and since she's been off, while she is eating more, it mainly appears to be maintenance as she's not really losing nor gaining weight anymore. Food just doesn't seem to be as big of a deal. We can enjoy a nice steak going out it's not as much as a draw.

[chpatrick]

But it still doesn't sound like a sustainable lifetime solution.

I think it makes great sense if you're badly out of shape, you fix it, and then you can maintain a healthy weight. But going on ozempic every few years sounds really bad.

[kelseyfrog]

"Sounds really bad" is orthogonal to "is really bad".

There's a heuristic that goes, "Shortcuts will catch up to people eventually," but I'm ok with letting the evidence bear that out.

[jart]

Yeah that's the kind of folk wisdom that causes people with psychiatric conditions to stop taking their medications. It's very ignorant and harmful.

[chpatrick]

I don't think that's a fair analogy. Psychiatric medications don't have a non-pharmacological alternative in many cases. You can't just consciously do something and not be depressed or schizophrenic any more.

However, putting food in your mouth is a completely conscious decision. If people have problems with controlling that then I think that's what should be treated, instead of medicating your body to react to food differently. I think a future where we turn to drugs on an ongoing basis to compensate our unhealthy lifestyles is pretty dystopic.

Again, if someone is obese and struggles to lose weight I think Ozempic sounds like a great way to get on the road to health. I just don't think you should take it for the rest of your life instead of changing your lifestyle.

[jart]

What you call dystopia, I call paradise. Evolution didn't give us bodies that are adapted to life in modern technological society. The better technology gets, the more unnatural the world gets for our bodies. People who are unfit to live won't die, because technology breaks the evolutionary process. Since we know that technology is better, the only way we can keep having it and thrive is by using more technology to hack our bodies so they're adapted for existence in the modern world.

[criddell]

> doesn’t sound like a sustainable lifetime solution

Would you same the same thing about insulin or statins or even caffeine? Why couldn’t something like Ozempic be something you take long term?

[chpatrick]

Because it has many bad side effects and it's only treating the symptom, when the real problem is eating too much? Should we keep medicating people for damage that they're continuing to do to themselves willingly?

With regards to caffeine, as a doctor would you prescribe lifetime energy drinks to people who intentionally don't sleep enough?

Insulin is totally different because if you're diabetic and you don't take it, you die. There's no cure for diabetes, so there's no other option but to take it for the rest of your life.

But if you've lost weight (either with ozempic or not), it's possible to not be obese again, you're totally in control of what you put in your mouth. It feels really weird to me to keep medicating people forever when there are well understood ways to manage your weight.

I think it's probably a great solution to help people who have lost control of their weight and need to get back on track. But using it to compensate for an unhealthy lifestyle going forward just seems like bad health policy.

[kergonath]

The way it is done, people take them for the rest of their lives. It is not something you are supposed to get only for a while, it is not a cure in that sense. It’s still miles better than the alternative, which is staying obese.

[sniggers]

For me, it's just less hunger and being full faster. I still want the milkshake, just a smaller one and less often.

[notyourwork]

It’s not about either or but portion control and limiting caloric intake. Also with alcohol it’s reduced consumption.