[spirit557]

You cant take these drugs forever afaik. Do they have permanent effects? It's just absurd to me the world has come to the point that we need these drugs in the first place but it makes total sense when you look at America for example. Awash in hyperpalatable processed "food" and corrupt food guidelines, a medical industry that "manages" chronic metabolic preventable disease but never cures it when probably 99% of cases could be reversed naturally. Big pharma and big food play their roles. Just insanity.

[JumpCrisscross]

> absurd to me the world has come to the point that we need these drugs in the first place

GLP-1 looks increasingly like a miracle drug. We see problems of addiction and obesity skyrocketing across the developing world. It’s not cost free, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the majority of America, China and India becoming potatoes.

When vitamins were discovered, there was similar moralising about there being no free lunch. With the benefit of hindsight those concerns were misfounded. Perhaps Ozempic has terrible side effects that haven’t been noticed since 2005. Given that timeline, however, we can confidently say someone obese taking the drug is better off with it.

> never cures it

I have friends who took it, lost weight and then stopped. The rebound was real but nowhere close to what they lost. (The lifestyle changes also mostly stuck.) For all practical purposes, their fatness was cured.

> when probably 99% of cases could be reversed naturally

Scientifically unfounded.

[spirit557]

Here's some more reading about reversing type 2 diabetes naturally. The current paradigm that one requires chronic disease management for the rest of their life is entirely false.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7400171/#:~:tex.... "Although treating type 2 diabetes complications is of utmost importance to protect organ damage, it is now increasingly recognized that even the more ambitious goal of diabetes remission may be possible [6]. Thus, while there is little doubt that healthy lifestyle habits are the cornerstone of prevention of type 2 diabetes, they could also be used as an effective treatment to even potentially reverse type 2 diabetes. In this regard, the interesting narrative review published by Hallberg SJ and colleagues [7] has summarized the evidence that type 2 diabetes reversal is possible with the use of three different approaches: bariatric surgery, low-calorie diets and carbohydrate restriction."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10716578/ "Unlocking the Potential of Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus Remission"

[spirit557]

Reversing type 2 diabetes naturally is not scientifically unfounded at all. Look online in the right places and there is tons of people that have been able to stop taking all their insulin and metformin etc by fasting, compressing feeding windows, cutting out all carbs.

Even the ADA had to finally acknowledge this is possible in a statement back in 2021: https://diabetes.org/newsroom/international-experts-outline-...

It's not such a crazy idea really - You consume so many carbohydrates that you overproduce insulin and become insensitive to it in a vicious cycle. The more you fast, stay in a ketogenic metabolic status, reduce carbs and/or go zero carb, compress your feeding windows the more insulin sensitive you become.

There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Your body can maintain your glucose needs by converting proteins into glucose. Fat and proteins are essential. Glucose is not it can be produce by liver.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Reversing type 2 diabetes naturally is not scientifically unfounded at al

It’s absolutely possible. It’s unfounded that it even medically works for 99% of people, and that is while ignoring the obvious compliance problem.

> stay in a ketogenic metabolic status

Want to point out the naturalistic fallacy in assuming putting your body into an extreme condition for the long term is less harmful than a drug. (I say this as someone who intermittently fasts.)

[Eisenstein]

It is absurd to you because you don't constantly crave food. It is easy for someone to say 'just don't eat so much' when they don't want to, but it is hard to not do something when you want it constantly and have access to it. Next time you are really thirsty, just don't drink anything -- then imagine something like that all the time.

> when probably 99% of cases could be reversed naturally.

What does that even mean? We aren't 'naturally' exposed to such calorie dense foods all the time and aren't 'naturally' supposed to be able to get any food with so little effort. What is natural about processed foods?

[PierceJoy]

On the contrary, most weight loss doctors consider these drugs to be like statins. You take them for the rest of your life. The number of people who maintain healthy habits after stopping them is shockingly low.

[JumpCrisscross]

> number of people who maintain healthy habits after stopping them is shockingly low

Source?

[PierceJoy]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35441470/

[copx]

>It's just absurd to me the world has come to the point that we need these drugs

I agree. People did not need these drugs in the past but instead of fixing the social and economic structures which caused the obesity epidemic we tell people to take drugs to manage.

Oh, and take Adderall so you can focus. Again, nobody needed this in the past.

And Xanax to manage the anxiety people did not use to have either.

Feel unhappy and alone? They will make a pill for that too.

"Brave New World" turned out to be even more prophetic than "1984".