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by stewartbutler 5138 days ago
I still don't understand why Facebook has such an overblown valuation to begin with. The entire business is a house of cards based on the possibility that it might make someone else some money someday. Sure, there are some vultures like Zynga that make out like bandits preying on people with addictive personalities who shell out cash, and I'm sure there are a few success stories regarding successful social media advertizing campaigns, but I count the former as resulting from a lack of morals and the latter as unpredictable anomalies that happened to tweak something in the hivemind.

I don't perceive any value in Facebook. It is an enormous time sink with rapidly diminishing returns on time investment, and I feel it is only a matter of time before the average user experience is more noise than signal. As soon as that point hits, I can easily see Facebook going the way of MySpace and its ilk. Facebook has some amazing talent on their team, so maybe someone there can see a way forward, but as far as I can tell the end game for all social <insert something here>s appears to be an exodus to a more specialized or sparsely populated network.

As an outsider my opinion is of limited utility, but I also think that Facebook is a poison on the tech industry as a whole. I don't see that they have created anything innovative, useful, or even substantial aside from this enormous echo chamber. I'm very glad to see that Wall Street isn't gorging on this IPO, even if it was an accidental fuckup that has spoiled the appetite. With any luck, this flop will convince investors to put their money onto things that create something useful.

If anyone has counterpoints, please post them. I write this in frustration, since I just really don't see where this "105 billion" valuation is coming from. Where is the potential in Facebook? What is being produced? Why should I give a damn?

- They missed the boat if they are trying to compete with the Google advertizing empire, so that can't be it.

- They admit that they aren't having the success they hoped for in the mobile arena.

- The only thing going for it is that it is the single largest repository on information about individuals, but that information cannot be ethically or legally used to its full utility, and most of it is white noise anyhow.

- The company has repeatedly shown that it doesn't give a damn about its users or small developers.

What makes this a sound investment?

3 comments

Facebook has the biggest and most metadata rich direct marketing list ever created?

Facebook has not even begun to do the things they could with the knowledge they collect every day. In theory you should be able to go to one of Facebook's ad sales pages and order an ad that will be shown exactly three times to every left-handed piano player in Ohio. That you can't do that in the next ten minutes means that Facebook is leaving money on the table. They don't need to compete with Google, they need to compete with Experian and Transunion, or they need to come up with a way to provide a compelling "We manage your online data for you." offering that a majority of their users would pay for.

Facebook is, right now in a fairly enviable position; there are many things that they could potentially become, they are not hamstrung by the need to keep a cash cow fed and they have enough resources to try multiple experiments at scale.

I wouldn't count them out as a driving force on the web just yet.

I think you overstate the amount of useful data Facebook has on people. Just to take your example: Facebook may very well know which state I live in, but they definitely don't know whether I'm left handed, for example.

On the other hand, Google might very well know this, if, say, I have searched for left handed golf clubs. Amazon would also know this, if I have bought said clubs through them. Google and Amazon almost certainly also know which state I live in (hell Google might know exactly where I am at any given moment if I have an Android phone).

So really I don't think Facebook is in an enviable position at all compared to companies like Amazon and Google.

"[...] they need to come up with a way to provide a compelling "We manage your online data for you." offering that a majority of their users would pay for"

What data? Dropbox and now Google back up all your files and documents, for FREE, now! How could they compete with this with a free service, let alone a paid one?

And from a privacy standpoint people trust Facebook far less than Google or Dropbox. There is an implicit assumption that anything shared with Facebook will some way or another be shared with one's Facebook friends. (People aren't ignorant of the way Facebook has tried to trick them into accepting more liberal privacy settings over the years.) Facebook would have to work very very hard to change this perception before a data storage service would ever take off.

As an addendum to your points, I do not have a Facebook account, and since deleting mine I've not even wanted one. Google, Amazon, Dropbox, and a few other services are compelling enough that unless they make serious errors, I will continue using their product. Facebook just had to change their privacy policy before I was finally annoyed enough to give them the boot.
ok facebook may not know if your left handed, unless your in a left handed appreciation group, but think about all the information facebook does collect on you.

where you or others check in, likes, people you chat with, what you chat about, who tags you in posts and photos and who your with, not to mention all the tracking facebook does with other sites

Well, it remains to be seen whether that data can actually generate revenue. I personally don't think it has much potential, at least not compared to the extremely specific data Google has on everyone, or the purchasing data that Amazon possesses.

Also, I just don't think people use Facebook the way you describe. Most people I know don't "check in" wherever they go, nor do they "like" different brands (except for ones that make them do so in order to be eligible for a contest or something sketchy like that--I've definitely seen that before). But people do search on Google for anything and everything, including purchasing decisions. And of course people do make real purchases on Amazon.

The widgets that Facebook litters over the web which it can use to track user's browsing habits may be the wild card here, but I'm still skeptical that this has that much value compared to Google's search data. Plus those widgets seem to be mostly limited to news sites anyway.

What can they sell me based on the fact that I just liked someones wedding photo / baby picture / witty comment? I like my friends businesses and other local peoples businesses on Facebook because I want them to do well. I've never gone on to Facebook to like a business because a transaction went smoothly. I think that's weird and think my friends would too when they see it on some feed.
You're missing a point there. The information may be mostly white noise, but with that much data, even filtered by laws and ethics, statistics are powerful. You are not the customer; neither are the developers. It's Target. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targe...
I have no problem visualizing how Target is able to predict future purchases based on what items I've already bought or what items I'm browsing. I have trouble visualizing how anyone can predict future purchases based on me liking a picture of a cat or browsing through friends vacation photos. Unless they're planning on selling me cat vacations...
Even your age, sex and country is very useful to advertisers - an ad targeted at those is worth about 50x the price of one sent to a random internet user (or it was when I last worked in that industry). Facebook knows where you went to college, what your favourite movies are, and perhaps most importantly of all, who your friends are. That's huge.
They just have to correlate: people who browse cat photos at 3 am and "like" these specific ones tend to buy canned beans within the next 3 days. It doesn't have to make sense as long as they can derive correlations from it.
Well, there's another article from Blodget on this fiasco that will soon hit the front page here.

The NASDAQ snafu is one thing. A class action suit has been filed.

But there has also been a class action suit against FB, alleging securities fraud.

We don't have all the facts yet, but what we've got so far is enough to demand to know more. I think a court will agree.

Bad PR all around for the FB. FB, the business, is doomed. They already knew that. They just didn't tell you, the investor.

Maybe we should demand an ad-free FB. Advertisers are going to be pulling out anyway. And without ads, they could give us more privacy.

Poetic justice.

Where's that Like button?