[jjtheblunt]

> And electric cars in general are even more expensive to repair.

Something has gone crazy over the past ten years: my 2014 BMW i3 over 79,900+ miles cost all of about $200 in maintenance, not including occasional new tires. EVs can be very frugal.

Is it profiteering and collusion now?

[aeternum]

Probably, Elon has some quote about how creating a successful new car company isn't hard because cars are hard to design.

It's hard because cars are generally sold with razor thin margins and all the money is made selling parts and service. Seems crazy but perhaps this is actually true.

[jjtheblunt]

(Upvoted) i think about exactly what you wrote, now with a 2024 electric BMW, in that clearly there is an initial excess cost (not because of being BMW) over similar ICE models (like i7 vs 7 series, m440 vs i4, etc.). And i think that excess cost passed to the buyer for electric over ICE effects includes the profit an ICE would have "earned" over time, because ev models have significantly simpler and less costly powertrains to build, and service. But, i can’t back up that guess with data.

[oliwarner]

But when the battery finally has a terminal issue, you're looking at a $30k quote to replace it. Or scrap the car. That's a real figure from this year for US i3 owners. But other cars are $20k+ too.

It's hard to offset long term expenses against car values, but it's certainly something am insurer needs to consider for liabilities.

[jjtheblunt]

BMW replaced The battery in my 2014 i3 (no rex, pure ev) in 2021 because of a faulty heat pump that let the battery roast in Arizona heat. They paid even though technically out of warranty and shipped the entire battery back to Germany to do forensics, and the work order showed $25k part cost, in summer 2021, that they spent, so that fits.

[jjtheblunt]

That’s not an insurance visible issue, but “normal wear and tear”, i bet.

[seanmcdirmid]

Your EV can probably last forever as long as you don't hit anything with it, or get hit by anything else. You'll need to get a new battery someday, but those might fall in price rather than become more expensive (assuming someone other than BMW can make them, which is a big open question).

[happytiger]

I am not debating potential or technology, but the higher industry repair costs.

Theory meets the road so to speak. I think it’s likely an artificially created profit center to keep the upfront cost of vehicles very low, as in Tesla’s case.

[r00fus]

I had a very inexpensive fix to my Ford Focus EV last year. Like less than $2k for being hit and spun, requiring repairs to 6-7 body panels.

EV manufacturers could make cars that are as durable as ICE ones but they choose not to - limited liability for such crashes is the way forward.

[happytiger]

The parts market transformation for tier-1 parts suppliers is far more complicated. What’s happening is that the legacy parts (panels) are coming from a different management pool than the EV components and parts suppliers are scrambling to change their strategies.

Take a look at how parts suppliers are segmenting their businesses and it will make sense (article below).

I completely agree with your conclusion, but none of the manufacturers have incentives that line up with limited liability.

https://www.bcg.com/publications/2023/growth-strategy-tier-o...

> Suppliers looking to formulate a successful portfolio strategy should begin with a careful review of their existing product groups, broadly allocated to three segments based on their growth and profitability outlooks.

- Booster parts. The major source of growth, this category includes such trend-driven parts as advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS), battery management systems (BMS), and fuel cells. These parts offer generally greater profitability, though profits will depend on the specific niche—higher for software, lower for increasingly commoditized segments like power electronics.

- Carry-over parts. These include a range of parts that will be predominantly trend-agnostic and stable, such as exterior parts, HVAC, seating, lighting, and the like. Profitability for this category will generally be stable.

- Legacy parts. These include ICE engine systems and conventional transmissions, exhaust systems, fuel systems, and older generations of electronics and human-machine interface (HMI) systems no longer applicable for connected cars—all of which are generally declining as a result of trends in mobility. In general, future profitability for this category of parts will be declining as suppliers struggle with overcapacity.

> Many tier-one suppliers will likely offer a mix of all three types of products. A proper portfolio strategy, however, will require the development of a separate, distinct strategy for managing each product group.

[r00fus]

I think this may be why manufacturers like Kia/Hyundai offered so many models that are ICE/hybrid/EV versions (see 2017-2022 Ioniq, Niro), now just ICE/hybrid/PHEV (Sportage, Sorrento). Could be their answer to parts availability contracts for their tier-1 suppliers.