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by sealeck 812 days ago
I think privacy is really about power – we think the individual deserves privacy because it protects their personal autonomy from either corporate or state abuse. My view is that privacy is important because it's a prerequisite for self-expression – it's not just "oh you might have something to hide", it's that if you are watched/monitored then your behaviour will change.

Why is this different when it comes to corporations? First, some jurisdictions (e.g. the UK) argue that limited liability is a privilege because it provides extensive legal protection for those undertaking a venture. With that privilege come certain responsibilities and duties, one of which is non-anonymity. There's also a pragmatic argument that it deters bad behaviour which is another reason to justify this.

Second, I think it's _really_ hard to argue that being able to have an anonymous, offshore shell corporation is essential for your self expression. Especially not when you are using it to hide large amounts of money. In fact, this infringes upon other people's right to self expression by depriving the state of funding that it would use to provide services to them such as education, subsidising the arts, etc.

There's a good piece in the New Yorker which explores exactly this question: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/06/27/why-the-privac...

2 comments

> non-anonymity. There's also a pragmatic argument that it deters bad behaviour which is another reason to justify this.

that goes both ways .. tax collection, arbitrary and capricious enforcement of regulation, scrutiny-as-punishment .. these things are as old as cities

I think this is usually a problem which is more easily solved by better funding tax authorities and installing better oversight rather than by making it easier for people to not pay tax.

I think most people's tax affairs are pretty clear-cut to assess (e.g. if you are an individual earning an income or run a small business). People who structure their tax affairs in convoluted ways where it becomes non-trivial to work out what the correct amount of tax they should be paying is (or even a question which can't really be answered until you are in caught) generally have a lot of money or are trying something stupid (e.g. trying to pay yourself your salary as a loan through an offshore company where the tax authority are obviously going to think this is illegal, see https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/01/18/barrowman_fraud).

Friends of mine ran a small Ltd as a moonshine operation to fundraise for causes they wanted to fundraise for.

The way they do it has been tried all the way to the top here and everyone agree it is legal.

They still lost all their contracts, again[1], after media found out and made a fuzz about the fact that nobody took out salaries but transferred the profit to causes they identified with. Media even pointed out that it was legal, but, big orgs don't care: they do whatever it takes to get media away.

[1]: yes, this isn't the first time.

I really can't comment here because it seems like there are a million possible details that could make this either something very illegal or a miscarriage of justice.
It was in all the papers. Went through all instances, all the way to the relevant department.

But of course there is nothing in Norwegian law that that denies people the right to donate their share, as long as every other law is followed.

Which is why last time media even pointed it out in cleartext the article: everything is legal.

They just wrote the article in the style of a criminal investigation anyway and askes big companies questions the same way they would have done with if they were caught dealing with russian mobsters.

That way they can point to the fact that they have informed about it while still destroying the marked for someone they don't like.

(Sorry, English is nit my first language.)

Hyggelig om du forteller hvilken sak det faktisk er, siden jeg ikke kjenner den igjen fra beskrivelsen din.

Nice if you could tell which specific story this is, since I can't recognize it from your description.

(English below.) Desverre kan jeg ikke si det uten å doxxe meg selv.

Men ja, det dreiar seg om eit norsk AS som var oppretta berre for å subsidiere ei hjartesak.

Litt som Dinamo reklamebyrå som ble opprettet som en mer effektiv måte å skaffe penger til Stabæk (kjent fra "Ona Fyr"-boka som var innmari populær for noen år siden), bare i mindre skala.

(Orsak for blandinga av nynorsk og bokmål, det er berre eit ein måte å lage ein sjibollet så ingen tek meg for å vere ein utanlandsk påverkningsagent med Google Translate :-)

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Sadly I cannot say more without doxxing myself.

But yes, it was a Norwegian AS (Ltd?) created for the sole purpose of financing something they cared about.

A bit like Dinamo, a Norwegian advertising agency that was created by fans of the Stabæk football club (and made famous by the much hyped book Ona Fyr a few years ago), just at a smaller scale.

(Sorry for my mix of Nynorsk and Bokmål above, it is mh attempt at creating a shibbolet so Norwegians don't take me for a foreigner with Google Translate :-)

If it’s a well known case feel free to share it, otherwise you’re just editorialising an unverifiable anecdote.
Sadly, as I have outlined in my reply to the other question (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39926847) I am afraid of doxxing myself if I say more about this.

But, without me being a legal expert in any way, shape or form, my feeling is it is relatively similar to the "Fjordteam" case from Sandefjord a few years ago:

Different owners, different jobs, but operated by volunteers who looked for a nore efficient (and healthier :-) way to finance their activities instead of the traditional Norwegian "cake raffle" ("kakelotteri")

The case involving a large and well known religious organisation that “employed” an army of unpaid volunteers? Can’t see how that relates to the broad description you provided earlier.
> Friends of mine ran a small Ltd as a moonshine operation

Did you mean "moonlight"? Asking because when I hear "a moonshine operation to fundraise for causes", I imagine something akin to an alcohol-themed Breaking Bad storyline

You are of course right :-)