[toolz]

The author of that book seems to exaggerate quite heavily, often stating that there's only one proven diet that reverses heart disease, which I find completely overstating the evidence. I do think he's onto something, but he completely oversells how confident science is on plant based dieting.

Here's an interesting overview on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypilw1KCq9Y

it would seem to me that Dr. Greger is simply wrong on this subject as the mediterranean diet would also appear to meet his criteria of "proven" diets and he claims only plant diets have been "proven"

[markstos]

The Mediterranean is a similar diet-- also emphasizes whole foods and mostly plants with less animal products. It's gets mentioned alongside WFPB as being good for longevity.

[cykros]

Incidentally, the Mediterranean diet also involves a lot of fat -- specifically, monounsaturated fats, which I've never heard anyone suggest ISN'T healthier than eating a large amount of animal fats, including the biggest keto proponents.

And keto does call for a moderate protein intake as well, as excess proteins are ultimately converted into glucose.

It seems there may be a bit of a straw man being built up here, based on the fact that it is very easy to tend toward an excessive meat/dairy based diet on keto, but nothing about it requires doing so.

Personally I know my reason for overdoing meats and dairy is that while I do a mostly keto-leaning diet, I'm also lifting weights, and have a higher than normal protein target for muscle growth. While vegan bodybuilders are a thing, looking at their food intake will let you know how difficult getting 150+g of protein a day from plant sources is -- there's a reason cows eat ALL day long.

Meat is the original processed protein source -- the machinery is just biological. Many of the same drawbacks as other processed foods, and many of the same conveniences.

[cmiller1]

> which I've never heard anyone suggest ISN'T healthier than eating a large amount of animal fats

I see you haven't run into the anti-seed oil nutjobs.

[blitzar]

I am an anti-seed oil nutjob - I use olive oil.

[throwawaycities]

Most “keto friendly foods” are part of the Mediterranean diet, the main difference is really a matter of cutting out foods that spike insulin and managing the marcos for ketosis. So the emphasis is on fats from the Mediterranean diets like fish, olive oils, meat, and nuts. It’s not like green vegetables (and other low glycemic vegetables) from the Mediterranean diet aren’t permitted.

[rmast]

There’s also research showing fruits (the whole thing with the fiber, not juice) can be eaten without causing an insulin spike — as in, X grams of natural sugar eaten in the form of an apple is not the same as getting those X grams as refined sugar such as a can of soda.

[throwawaycities]

Yes it’s possible to eat small amounts of certain fruits (not sure about apples specifically) and not be thrown out of ketosis. When in ketosis I tend to avoid fruit, sometimes I’ll have a small amount of blueberries in a smoothie balanced out with fats from coconut milk, almond butter and chia seeds, plus some fiber (spinach). But I even avoid high-glycemic vegetables, like carrots, when in ketosis.

Generally in calculating their carb/sugar intake people will reduce carbs/sugars by fiber, it’s not exactly scientific but probably works for the most part. I don’t even bother calculating carbs for stuff like spinach, kale, or Broccoli.

[david-gpu]

> But I even avoid high-glycemic vegetables, like carrots

Carrots have a high glycemic index, but a low glycemic load. That is, you will rapidly absorb the glucose in them, but the amount of glucose they contain in the first place is low.

Anecdotally, I've never heard anybody complaining about insulin spikes in their continuous glucose monitor from eating carrots.

[throwawaycities]

>Anecdotally, I've never heard anybody complaining about insulin spikes in their continuous glucose monitor from eating carrots.

I never used a blood glucose monitor, but I did use ketone test strips and small amounts of shredded carrots added to a spinach salad would have pretty significant impact on my detectable ketone levels.

I was often surprised by things that knocked me out of ketosis. For example normal serving sizes of whey or casein protein powders (<1g of carbs/no sugar)could.

I’m not hating on carrots or demonizing them, just for my purposes I avoid them and other foods that knocked me out of ketosis or consistently had significant impacts on my detectable ketone levels.