[didntcheck]

But also because we refuse to pay. Any attempt at monetization is widely demonized, yet people still feel entitled to free content, and refuse to put their money where their mouth is and at least abstain from consuming the content if they really don't think it's worth the price

It's funny how scarce the "I'd be willing to pay for good content, but alas, there is no option" claim has become since websites have started widely implemented paid ad-free accounts or outright paywalls

I've never seen someone angry that a supermarket won't give them a newspaper for free, but when it's online this is apparently a valid complaint

[tensor]

I am willing to pay for good content, and do, but still often have little choice. E.g. I can't pay for google maps without ads. And no, it's not a reasonable take to suggest I not use any map app.

I also pay for online news, AND STILL GET ADS, so fuck that I block them. It's still the case today that most of the time you do not have an option to pay to get rid of ads, and often when you do it's some ludicrous amount like $10 a month for some blog you might read three times a year.

Part of being able to pay for content is to come up with a fair price for it.

[mrWiz]

How do Kagi and Apple Maps factor in to your "can't pay for google maps without ads" assessment?

[tensor]

I pay for and use Kagi. Apple Maps uses yelp which makes it useless for actually checking reviews of places. Kagi reviews link to other sources with ads.

edit: and I hope you're not implying that all people who don't want ads should buy an iphone just to use an app tied to it? Again, there needs to be fair alternatives to ads.

[mrWiz]

I didn't realize that you were coming at it from a review angle, I was thinking of the "turn left at Subway" sort of advertising in Google Maps.

I'm not trying to imply anything, I just personally use two ad free map services that you seemed unaware of.

[tensor]

I'd say at least 80% of my maps usage is looking for restaurants or coffee shops and checking their reviews. Directions are maybe 20% or less. Apple has come a long way and their maps are good for directions, but not a good fit for the argument that the general public has little access to good alternatives to ad-based maps.

I assume kagi is based on open-street maps, I use kagi but not their maps as I have better alternatives. I really hope Kagi continues to succeed because its a model I believe in, but outside of basic search I suspect they have a ways to go.

[bonton89]

Paying will at best temporarily stop ads, until the company wants more money and brings them back. Which we've already seen. And it will not stop aggressive user tracking at all. In fact, it will make the later worse for you on the individual level as it requires doxing yourself to pay and sorts you into the "has money" bucket which makes you a juicier target.

[Terr_]

Yeah, it's a mistake to think of this a simple "just buy an apple a different stall in the marketplace" situation, we're way past that.

To bring it towards alignment with the status-quo, every fruit-vendor would be a facet of a few massive guildhalls, with spyglasses trained down from the parapets, informants circulating in the crowd, a parchment file on everyone, etc.

[ravenstine]

On the inverse, just because a business relies on ads doesn't mean it won't start charging money for certain things.

Businesses are always changing and there are no guarantees. Some money hungry bozo might become CEO of your favorite product and enshittify it. That's just reality, and it doesn't mean that paying for things is futile. Best to avoid having too many eggs in one basket and paying for things that you can't actually own.

[ravenstine]

Maybe we will see a fractionation between businesses that use the free but ad-supported model and the pay-based model.

Recently, the investment platform M1 Finance decided to begin charging users with less than $10,000 in holdings $3 per month to use their service while giving everyone access to features that used to be only available in the premium plan. This has all been announced in advance, so it's not as if anyone should have been surprised about this.

Many users, virtually all of whom have a total of holdings below the $10k threshold, flipped their shit and have claimed they are leaving the platform. Ironically, many of them are suggesting alternatives that cost more than $3 a month, and I'd wager a guess that a lot of these people are spending way more than that buying coffees every day. No one has to like having to pay for something that used to be free to them, but one really has to question their life if paying $3 for something that used to cost more than that per trade and require a lump sum up front is something to throw a fit over. If you have just shy of $10k in investments, you're not gonna retire, and $3 a month is the least of your worries.

In my opinion, M1 is doing the right thing by saying goodbye to these users. They are the types who won't value your product, maintain chronically low balances, and will tie up your customer support with spurious complaints and misunderstandings. I predict they will be rewarded for keeping around customers whom are willing to pay.

Hopefully, more online platforms figure this out and decide to do the same thing. I call BS on those claiming "no one will pay for that." If your business is only viable on attention, which is what the ad economy is based on, then its existence is in a precarious position, and perhaps your product isn't worth much to anyone except the ad networks. On the other hand, there are things that people are willing to pay for, or would pay for if given a premium experience. I've gone from watching stuff for free on YouTube to buying books and audiobooks because they provide far more value to me these days than the chum that is social media "content." I pay individual creators I appreciate on Patreon, etc. I have a Kagi subscription because I find it to be more aligned with my wants and needs than free search engines. I've gone back to buying individual songs and even buying CDs since they not only disappear from platforms but now there are artists that change their own songs retroactively. I pay my investment platform because it has better automation than competing free (or so-called free) competitors.

Everything being free online is a meme, and hopefully it starts to die the more that the spehre of free things eats itself with spam and user-hostile behavior. They will always exist for those who have barely any money or those who don't value the conveniences bestowed upon them, but they can't be the only viable options anymore. Paying for things is a good thing.