[mpweiher]

> [increase friction for cars...no improvement to public transport]

Hmm...aren't you forgetting something?

Last I checked, Paris had a veritable bicycling revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Paris

Le Plan vélo de Paris (2015-2020) doubled bicycle lanes to 1000km and increased ridership (apparently already high?) by 50% or more.

The current plan is to add another 180km and make Paris 100% cyclable.

[vladvasiliu]

Sure, if you live in the city proper.

But what that doesn't mention: the bike sharing schemes are hit-and-miss. I usually commute each way a good hour before rush-hour traffic, so I have a good probability of finding a usable bike. But during rush hour? Fat chance.

Oh, you're going to point out that there's a scheme helping you purchase your own bike? Indeed. What are you going to do with it, though? At home, you may be able to find a spot to park in your flat (it's not my case). You wanna leave it outside? Sure, go ahead, if you don't care about finding it in one piece in the morning. Ditto for the other end of your commute.

There's also the fact that bike sharing schemes only work in Paris proper and adjacent towns. If you want to commute in from further away [0], you better be ready to ride in traffic and have your own bike, assuming you don't live that far. If you're lucky enough to live in one of the places served by the new metro, it's still not ready (but should be real soon now - fingers crossed).

So sure, having more dedicated bike lanes (and some of the new ones are actually physically separate from car lanes) is great. Although sometimes the layout is... puzzling? Bike lanes switching from the left to the right side of the roads, narrow two-way lanes (Bd Sébastopol), etc.

But I wouldn't exactly call it a "revolution" in practice. My commute goes from the east to the northwest of the city, around 7 km. Of these, only around 1 km is a bike lane separate from the traffic. And it's ridiculously narrow. Bonus points for it being painted with a slippery paint for some reason (look up Boulevard Magenta). The rest is half on bike lanes shared with a bus, the other half on regular roads with no bike lane at all.

---

[0] Don't forget that Paris proper is home to ~2M people, while the Paris Region has ~12M.

[cycomanic]

The original post was complaining about increasing density and how investment in public transport hasn't kept up. The previous poster said what about bikes, and you are now saying that bikes are not a solution to people coming from the greater Paris region. But that was not what we are talking about, we were talking about higher density (=more people) in Paris proper. Bikes are certainly a solution to transport in the high density city.

[vladvasiliu]

Only part of my answer was about people coming in from afar. The other, about there being nowhere to store bikes, as well as questionable quality of the biking infrastructure is about the city itself.

Edit: I'm actually saying this as someone who enjoys and actually does bike. When living in the city proper, I think there are very few routes for which the bike isn't the quickest method of transportation. For my commute, which is pretty much a best-case scenario (modern metro with few to no issues, goes in a fairly straight line, don't have to change lines, stations close to both home and the office) the bike is much faster: 20 instead of 30 minutes.

[mrcartmeneses]

Bike storage was never a problem for me living in London, even when I lived on a tiny canal boat. I can’t imagine Parisian’s bicycles are that different nor their homes much smaller than a boat or my 75m2 flat. Yes, I also have a cargo bike for transporting kids. The only thing stopping anyone from cycling is their anxiety and sense of car-owing identity

[vladvasiliu]

> my 75m2 flat

Wouldn't we all love to have such a big flat.

I was talking to a friend living in London, and it would indeed seem that flats tend to be bigger over there. We do have many 100+ m2 flats, don't get me wrong, it's just that most locals can't afford those and live in shoeboxes instead.

There's also the fact that the layout doesn't always lend itself to storing a bike, most flats being rather old. Even though I would technically have the surface area to store a bike, it'd have to be in an awkward place to avoid blocking the passages.

Some newer apartment buildings do have areas for storing bikes more or less securely. But I doubt that's the case for most people.

Instead, what I'm hopeful for, is that the local bike-sharing scheme will improve. And indeed, I've read a few weeks ago that they were rolling out some improved model, which they expect to be more robust.

[seanmcdirmid]

One reason I don't get a bike here in Seattle is because bike theft is just way too common, and I have no way to secure it in my house (not enclosed garage, no space inside to keep it). It is funny, because they have better infrastructure now, but the theft problem (and lack of police/government care for the problem) means less people are actually riding bikes here.

[mrpopo]

Safe (locked) bike parks are popping up everywhere in Paris

[vladvasiliu]

Where everywhere? I haven't seen any recently. Are those being up in underground parking lots? (I don't have a car, so I never go there)

I've even read an article in Le Parisien (local-ish paper) about how some of those bike storage units were actually removed for some reason.

[pjmlp]

Like in German cities? For the lucky 30 or something that managed to arrive earlier to the spot, and only on the main station.

[CalRobert]

For what it's worth, I got a folding bike (a Brompton) to address the storage issues you cite.

[harimau777]

How do people deal with being sweaty at work? Do offices generally have showers?

[Fradow]

Offices generally don't have showers.

People also generally don't arrive sweaty when biking (at least not more than those taking public transportation in the summer).

To avoid being sweaty: go slower to not over-exert yourself, wear less clothing (you might be a bit cold when starting your commute, but that's not a big deal), and if it's still not enough (not fit enough, hills, etc...), an electric-assisted bike might be the solution.

[vladvasiliu]

Also: don't wear a backpack if it's not one of those "air-something" that allow airflow on your back.

[twelve40]

they don't; it's just not practical. You have to be relatively fit and energetic to do it every day, have no chores like kids pickup, have extra time on your hands, the weather has to be perfect - no rain or god forbid snow. This only works for a particular segment of working people out there.

[seanmcdirmid]

It depends on the climate. If you live in California or west coast outside of rainy seasons, there really isn't much of a problem unless you have a huge hill to climb on the way to work. Actually, that was my problem in Lausanne (3D town, I road up the hill every morning, and would be a bit sweaty, but I had my own office so I didn't care).

Riding worked for a particular phase of my life, now it doesn't, since I have a kid to take care of and the bike theft problem has gotten out of control in my locale.

[bouzouk]

I live in Paris, I have 2 small kids, and I don't have much time on my hands (founder). I go to work (5km) by bike every day, whether it rains, snows, or worse ;)

[Zamiel_Snawley]

The Dutch beg to differ[0].

Over a third of Dutch people cycle as their most frequent mode of transport. Over a quarter of all trips are on a bike. 49% of primary school students and 75% of secondary school students cycle to school.

Cycling has been a national priority for the Dutch, like the automobile has a been a priority for much of the rest of the developed world.

With e-bikes, fitness and terrain are less relevant than ever. Unsafe(car dominated) bike routes are the number one obstacle to increased cycling.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_the_Netherlands

[nkrisc]

I’m not biking to work in -17C. I have walked to the bus (including through 50cm of snow in a raging blizzard) and driven in such temperature many times.

A quick search reveals that the average winter temperature in the Netherlands is above freezing, while average summer temperatures hover around 20C. Sounds positively delightful for biking. That’s not the case for much of North America.

Where I come from, generally in the Great Lakes region, the average temperatures range from -1C to 30C during the year. Not great for year-round commuting by bike. Some people do it, sure, but it is truly a commitment.

[seanmcdirmid]

It helps that the Netherlands is mostly flat and has pretty good weather for it (I guess rain is kind of an issue). They also have awesome infrastructure and don't just expect cars to do the right thing (they actually design and redesign roads to make biking safe).

[pjmlp]

Netherlands is on a sweet spot for cycling.

They don't have 40°C in Summer like in Southern Europe, or -20°C like in the Alps.

[twelve40]

according to your own numbers, 64% of the Dutch don't use bicycle as their most frequent mode of transport. Meaning that bicycling doesn't work for the majority of population even when it is made a national priority. I'm all for it, but the numbers you've listed prove that it's simply not practical for most people in the best of times.

[vladvasiliu]

I'm not so sure that's an issue for the general population.

My main gripe is actually availability of bikes in the bike-sharing scheme, since I can't bring up my own in the office, and since I work in a shady area, there's no way I'd leave it outside for the day. I also like the flexibility of not having to use my bike both ways. Think catching a movie or whatever after work and possibly getting a drink with friends. Although this is related to not wanting to leave the bike unattended for any period of time.

But nowadays, with electric bikes, unless you live on top of Montmartre hill (and even then), I think it's no longer an issue. I have a colleague who takes her two children to school on bike before riding into the office (she works in a different office, where they have an interior yard with bike racks). Her bike's got electric assistance and she doesn't seem to arrive out of breath or anything. She also doesn't seem exceptionally sporty.

[gamblerrr]

Everything only works for a particular segment of people, but you exaggerate how small this particular segment is.

You don’t need to be fit, just not entirely out of shape — or ride an ebike. You can easily do chores, get groceries, etc. on a bike. I take my kid to school in a cargo bike regularly. It’s faster than driving (at rush hour at least) because there’s no stoplights on the bike path. And rain gear is a thing.

It’s not for everyone but haters always claim it’s for no one. No, it’s just not for you, stop being a hater.

[okr]

I call it natural selection of the gene pool. Of course they dont call it like that in their pink city world.

[usr1106]

I have biked to work over 30 years in various places. Some with uphill in the morning. The point is just that you bike comfortably. When I was younger that probably meant something like 18 km/h in sligthly hilly places. Nowadays it's less. You can actually debug your code while biking (mentally, no screen involved). I have solved many problems after 15 minutes on the bike better than in 3 hours in front of the screen. Yes, I avoid heavy traffic, even if it means a detour.

If you want to bike fast you can do it when not on the way to the office.

(I once biked in Dallas at 95F. There not getting sweaty might be a challenge...)

[CuriouslyC]

You wear wicking clothing, don't ride too hard and change into work clothes in the office bathroom.

[lern_too_spel]

Paris is mostly flat. As long as you aren't racing to work, sweat shouldn't be an issue.

[seanmcdirmid]

Isn't La Defense on a hill? I remember the escalators going up to it and down from it, anyways.

[retinaros]

it is not flat at all

[lern_too_spel]

"Other than the hill of Montmartre and the Belleville area, the terrain of Paris changes less than the height of a ten story building."

Hence, mostly flat.

[javiramos]

ebike