[ars]

And worse for the people who live there. I get anxiety just thinking of living in a dense city. Everyone I know who left a dense city never wants to go back - they talk like people who suffered from Stockholm syndrome and were now freed.

And that doesn't even touch the economics: For the most part cities make money by services and not by physical items. Services are very lucrative, so on paper cities make tons of money. But they don't make anything people need to live.

Virtually every single thing people buy in a city comes from outside the city. It's not a lifestyle that everyone can adopt. For the most part there's a balance, with some living in a city and some rural - but people should be extremely cautious about any kind of policy that can mess with that balance.

[BenFranklin100]

First, no one can force you or anyone else to live in a dense urban area. In fact, the denser the urban core the more less dense options right outside the city core for people such as yourself. Second, you are in the minority. Dense cities are dense for a reason: far from being anxiety-provoking, many people find urban areas very desirable place to live.

[CalRobert]

I left the city for the country and ended up clawing my way back in. Cities, especially dense, walkable ones, are wonderful. Better still if they remove cars.

[nerdbert]

> Everyone I know who left a dense city never wants to go back

Okay. I don't know who you know but it doesn't sound like the people that I know.

> And worse for the people who live there. I get anxiety just thinking of living in a dense city.

After having lived in some small towns, I get anxiety thinking about not living in a big city. Different strokes. As it turns out, most people in most countries do choose to live in cities.

[fragmede]

Lawns are a Veblen good, like Louis Vuitton and Christian Dior handbags. That we don't see them as ostentatious the same way is a matter of culture. By all means, people should live where they want to live; urban, suburban, rural. But let's be honest about things.

[ars]

Lawns are a place where I play, or my kids play. Or where I go to just sit and enjoy nature. They are also decoration (flower bed for example) to make my surroundings more pleasant which helps my mental state.

If your lawn is a Veblen good you are doing it wrong.

[fragmede]

People enjoy their Louis Vuitton handbags, also improving their mental state. So the fact that you enjoy your lawn doesn't make it any less of a luxury good. Not faulting you for having one, we humans like our luxuries. Let's just understand that's what they are. Like BMWs and Rolexes.

[ars]

> doesn't make it any less of a luxury good

That's not what Veblen is. A Veblen is better the higher the price, and that is not correct for lawns. A lawn doesn't get better if the cost of the lawn is higher.

A lawn is better simply for existing, which makes it a standard good.

[fragmede]

Veblen is that the demand is higher the higher the price, instead of the opposite, but instead of getting hung up on wether or not it's a Veblen good, my larger point is that lawns are luxuries like BMWs and Rolexes. Nice if you can afford them but recognize that we've normalized being extra in this way.

[pandaman]

Things you consider luxury may not be such for others and vice versa. You cannot really state your opinions as a fact and expect everyone to agree.

[timeagain]

Yeah my Rolex helps my mental state. I can read the time with it and it is useful for deep sea diving.

[ars]

And you can do that with a cheaper watch also. That makes in a Veblen, but a more expensive lawn is not a better lawn. So a lawn is not a Veblen.

[fragmede]

Having a large expansive lawn with rocky features, rare plants, water features, and fish, while being perfectly manicured attached to an estate is a way better lawn than a 12x20 green rectangle in the front of a suburban home's lot.

[ars]

That's the opposite of what I said. A Veblen good means the same item, if priced higher, is somehow more desirable.

But you've described a more expensive lawn that is actually better, which makes it a normal good.

You are simply wrong about lawns being a Veblen, and you should acknowledge that.

[CalRobert]

Lawns exist in part because we made it too dangerous for kids to play in the street (this obviously will have a good deal of variance by location).

[wpm]

Sounds like an urban park.

[snordgren]

Not if you enjoy gardening.

[nerdbert]

A lawn is a pretty boring garden.

[ragazzina]

Community gardens exist.

[delecti]

My wife and I bought a house a in the suburbs and both of us badly want to move back. So now know someone who left a dense city and wants to go back. Being able to walk places is a luxury we won't overlook again.

[RoyalHenOil]

Suburbs are the worst of both worlds. Urban areas are super convenient, rural areas are super private, and suburban areas are typically neither.

I grew up in a city, and I am not a city person. I love living in the boonies (I live on an 80-acre farm surrounded by farms and forests that are even larger), and even so, I would rather live in a dense urban area than in the 'burbs.

I currently have a shorter commute to the local shops and supermarket (8 minutes) than many people have in the suburbs. It's hard to imagine giving up privacy for an even worse commute.