[fragmede]

Lawns are a Veblen good, like Louis Vuitton and Christian Dior handbags. That we don't see them as ostentatious the same way is a matter of culture. By all means, people should live where they want to live; urban, suburban, rural. But let's be honest about things.

[ars]

Lawns are a place where I play, or my kids play. Or where I go to just sit and enjoy nature. They are also decoration (flower bed for example) to make my surroundings more pleasant which helps my mental state.

If your lawn is a Veblen good you are doing it wrong.

[fragmede]

People enjoy their Louis Vuitton handbags, also improving their mental state. So the fact that you enjoy your lawn doesn't make it any less of a luxury good. Not faulting you for having one, we humans like our luxuries. Let's just understand that's what they are. Like BMWs and Rolexes.

[ars]

> doesn't make it any less of a luxury good

That's not what Veblen is. A Veblen is better the higher the price, and that is not correct for lawns. A lawn doesn't get better if the cost of the lawn is higher.

A lawn is better simply for existing, which makes it a standard good.

[fragmede]

Veblen is that the demand is higher the higher the price, instead of the opposite, but instead of getting hung up on wether or not it's a Veblen good, my larger point is that lawns are luxuries like BMWs and Rolexes. Nice if you can afford them but recognize that we've normalized being extra in this way.

[pandaman]

Things you consider luxury may not be such for others and vice versa. You cannot really state your opinions as a fact and expect everyone to agree.

[fragmede]

Obviously. And my opinion is lawns are expensive designer patches of dirt. Like a Rolls Royce or a Bentley. Really nice, and there's a whole industry surrounding them, and a whole lot of culture surrounding having one but ultimately problematic for society if everyone has to have one of their own. Which comes to the part where there are facts. A house with a lawn takes up more space than the exact same home without a lawn. Adding the lawn increases the footprint of a house which increases size and drops population density, which makes services more expensive because things are simply further apart. No one has to agree with my opinion that lawns are a luxury good, but it is very expensive for everyone to think they want one.

[timeagain]

Yeah my Rolex helps my mental state. I can read the time with it and it is useful for deep sea diving.

[ars]

And you can do that with a cheaper watch also. That makes in a Veblen, but a more expensive lawn is not a better lawn. So a lawn is not a Veblen.

[fragmede]

Having a large expansive lawn with rocky features, rare plants, water features, and fish, while being perfectly manicured attached to an estate is a way better lawn than a 12x20 green rectangle in the front of a suburban home's lot.

[ars]

That's the opposite of what I said. A Veblen good means the same item, if priced higher, is somehow more desirable.

But you've described a more expensive lawn that is actually better, which makes it a normal good.

You are simply wrong about lawns being a Veblen, and you should acknowledge that.

[fragmede]

A Veblen good is something for which demand goes up as it gets more expensive, not for the same item. A Rolex isn't the same as a Casio.

[CalRobert]

Lawns exist in part because we made it too dangerous for kids to play in the street (this obviously will have a good deal of variance by location).

[wpm]

Sounds like an urban park.

[snordgren]

Not if you enjoy gardening.

[nerdbert]

A lawn is a pretty boring garden.

[ragazzina]

Community gardens exist.