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by savq 842 days ago
(Person that actually uses sumercé here.)

The article is reading way too much into it, and it forgets a very important piece of information: The origin of usted is "vuestra merced". Spanish had T-V distinction, like most romance languages, but usted superceded vos as the formal 2nd person pronoun.

sumercé is a word that had the same process, just starting from "su merced" instead, since in Colombia —like in all other latin american countries— vosotros is not used.

That's it.

3 comments

Interesting. Portuguese (at least Brazilian, not sure how it is in Portugal) uses você for the 2nd person pronoun (and doesn't maintain a formal/informal distinction), and você came from vossa mercê. Since that's where usted, sumercé, and você came all come from, I'm guessing it must be a Latin thing?
> from vossa mercê

Which in some Brazilian soap operas sounded more like "vosmece" or "vosmercê", especially when said by people with country side accent (caipiras).

I hear or say vos almost every time I greet someone. I’m in Paraguay. Is Colombia a tu country?
Wrong: Spanish usted comes from the Arabic "ʔustāḏ", a honorific title meaning something like "distinguished person"
This is wrong — an entire spectrum of early modern variants starting from _vuestra merced_ to _vuesasted_ to _vusted_ to _usted_ has been demonstrated in written and printed matter across the centuries. It helps that written Spanish has been particularly well documented from the Age of Discovery onwards.
> has been demonstrated in written and printed matter across the centuries.

which centuries are we talking about?

> It helps that written Spanish has been particularly well documented from the Age of Discovery onwards.

and that was how many centuries after the Arab occupation?

There are tons of Arabic-origin words in Spanish, (alcoba, aljibe, almohada, cerveza, naranja, zanahoria), so the hypothesis of "usted" sharing said origin is plausible.

Maybe you have some relevant evidence to your theory?

Paper on this subject:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.academia.edu/491578...

Evidence for "vuestra merced":

http://elies.rediris.es/elies22/cap7.htm

Much more in-depth treatment of "vuestra merced" etymology:

www.academia.edu/39806097/_Fue_vulgar_y_plebeyo_el_origen_de_usted_La_diacron%25C3%25ADa_del_pronombre_de_respeto_desde_la_interfaz_oral_escrito&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjc_-qd9tuEAxXFOjQIHWgZDMsQFnoECAYQAg&usg=AOvVaw1A_5QRn5k5EbDqDOzJ-DUy

Spanish Corpus:

https://www.corpusdelespanol.org/hist-gen/

Interesting review of dialects of Judeo-Spanish from 1894 where "su merced", "su osted", and "usted" all appear:

https://www.cervantesvirtual.com/obra-visor/la-lengua-y-la-l...