[napoleoncomplex]

Having bought a Toyota hybrid for the first time about 2 years ago, the value proposition was overwhelmingly in their favor. Cost the same or less as equivalent gas cars in their class, with about 30% to 50% less gas usage, meaning ongoing costs are way lower too.

It was of course way cheaper than any reasonable electric car 2 years ago too, still probably is, and charging infrastructure was terrible where I live back then, still mostly is (but getting better).

I think the years and years of PR around their top tier reliability helps a lot too. I guess the biggest gripe is the looks of their cars, they're basically boring, kind of ugly and utilitarian. But all of the above together kind of nails a segment of car buyers which is "I don't want to give a shit about my car, I need it to work well, not burn the planet too much, not cost a lot, and get me where I need to go", which is probably a pretty large segment.

[ein0p]

People who don’t own electric cars usually don’t realize this, but if you own a home, you don’t really need “charging infrastructure”. For regular commute of ~15 miles each way a regular household outlet will suffice. Not having to drive anywhere to “refuel” is pretty nice IMO. As is not having to spend the better part of a day every year on scheduled maintenance because, well, none is required

[lotsofpulp]

Regular gas vehicles don’t need the better part of a day every year for scheduled maintenance either. Full synthetic oil only needs to be changed after 5k miles, and most people can get away with 8k miles. It is at most 1 hour at a mechanic, but probably less than 30min at an oil change specific place like Valvoline.

Cabin and engine air filter is a 5min job anyone can do too. The only other regular thing needed is tire rotations, although that applies to EV also.

Obviously, not having to deal with all that gas related drivetrain is great. But is it worth an extra $10k to $20k or more? Probably not for most.

[ein0p]

Dunno, BMW requires that you drop off your car for the entire day. And you don’t get a loaner either. So did VW, Toyota and Subaru I had in the past. All recommend changing oil at least once a year. Hugely inconvenient and disrespectful of my time. I frankly don’t see why dealers don’t make this a 15 minute affair like the various lube shops to which one would be reluctant to take their car while it’s under warranty. Also, a well equipped Prius is like $40k nowadays if you haven’t checked the prices lately.

[buserror]

It's all a US ploy to make you spend money. In europe nobody changes their oil every year it's absolutely bonkers when I read that. My new BMW X5 manufacturer first service is set at 18000 miles that's likely 2+ years of ownership! I also have a petrol Z3 and I change the oil every 5 years maybe. It still is 24 years old and goes like clappers. And last time I changed the oil, the old one looked absolutely fine.

[emmender2]

Is it true that luxury (or any) car manufacturers extend their oil-change periods so that the engine wears out earlier and their customers will replace their cars sooner. So, BMW wants you to replace your car every x miles (eg 100K miles) - whereas the mechanism can last way longer (300K miles) if maintained better.

the car maker has an inherent incentive to reduce the lifespan of the vehicle which conflicts with the customer's incentive to extend the lifespan.

[throwaway22032]

This just sounds like you don't drive much.

I easily cover 10-15k miles a year as a Brit. Changing the oil in my car every 50,000-75,000 miles ("5 years maybe") would be totally ridiculous. In many vehicles you're looking at things like timing belt changes in that time frame, you've replaced the tyres multiple times, etc.

[Gibbon1]

> first service is set at 18000 miles that's likely 2+ years of ownership!

An American commuter will hit that in a year easy.

[lotsofpulp]

I doubt it.

https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-miles-dri...

> The average miles driven per year by Americans has now reached a total of 14,263 miles.

And I bet this is a mean average, so is skewed higher by people who drive a lot. If I were to guess, the vast majority of personal vehicles stay under 10k miles per year.

Women and retired people especially, who usually have their own vehicle:

> Men drive around 6,000 miles per year more than women on average, and after retirement drivers post around 30 percent fewer miles per year.

[emmender2]

> Hugely inconvenient and disrespectful of my time.

dealing with dealers and repair shops is not fun. but gas-cars are still the known-devil - masses understand their issues and are habituated to them. evs come with unknowns which hinder fast mass adoption.

[cityofdelusion]

There’s no reason to get an oil change at a dealer, it exists solely to upsell on other services. New cars under warranty can get a 15 minute oil job just fine, it’s removing one bolt and reinstalling it for 99% of cars.

[ein0p]

It’s not just an oil change with ICE cars either - they run the diagnostics, fix the various recalls, and maintain your service record. Cars are very complicated nowadays, especially hybrid ones, it’s cheaper to catch problems early. Plus it’s free for the first 3 years if one values their time at $0/hr.

Only on HN will people argue that spending a day or two a year on something as stupid and unnecessary as refueling and car maintenance is worthwhile.

[nytesky]

The car spends the day doing maintenance, I drop it off and they drop me off at home. I telework, then they pick me up and I get my car.

I imagine the aggregate time spent on engine maintenance is no more than the aggregate extra charging time you have to attend to when not at home?

[theshackleford]

> Only on HN will people argue that spending a day or two a year on something as stupid and unnecessary as refueling and car maintenance is worthwhile.

Probably because you’re inventing scenarios in your head that only apply to you.

[lotsofpulp]

> Only on HN will people argue that spending a day or two a year on something as stupid and unnecessary as refueling and car maintenance is worthwhile

You are arguing that, even after being told it is not true. And then you select a known high maintenance brand to keep arguing it, which makes your motive sound disingenuous.

[dragontamer]

I never understood people who complained about oil changes.

Do... people not rotate their tires or something? EVs are heavier and therefore have more tire-wear. Its probably more important to rotate those tires.

Oil Change + Tire Rotation is pretty typical service. Even if you get rid of oil changes, the tires still should go around-and-round.

[ein0p]

I never even heard of tire rotation before I moved to the US.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

A lot of this is dependent on where you live. I live in a less dense area than most.

My local shops generally have loaners available, and if not, their courtesy cars will drive you anywhere within a reasonable distance if you need to get home or to work. Ford dealer has driven me the 40 minutes home and then come back to pick me up when the car was ready. They also have "drive through" service for oil changes and simple stuff like that if you don't want to be bothered making an appointment.

[dragontamer]

It takes me about 1-hour to change my own oil for $35. I do full synthetic because why not? (Conventional oil would be like $28 but... spending the extra money for nicer oil is is so cheap anyway...)

EDIT: The only reason it takes me 1-hour to change my oil is that I also do my own tire-rotations at the same time. The oil change is... really easy.

> Also, a well equipped Prius is like $40k nowadays if you haven’t checked the prices lately.

A Corolla Hybrid is like $25k.

[seanmcdirmid]

I never dreamed about buying a BMW until the i4 came out. Their ICEs just scare me, and I believe one day oil changes. But the i4 doesn’t really require much service at all, maybe new tires eventually. It makes owning a German car feasible.

But if you go with a reliable Honda or Toyota (or their luxury up brands), owning an ICE isn't that much of a hassle.

[whelp_24]

I have had a Volkswagen, it certainly didn't take a day at the dealer. And most of the wait time was other customers ahead of me.

[Log_out_]

That weasel in my hood disagreed with me and regularly chewed my car out.

[brtkdotse]

> they're basically boring, kind of ugly and utilitarian.

Good, it’s what cars should be. “Car culture” is a plight on society and the sooner we break free of tying our self worth to our cars the better.