That may be true, and it may be of personal value to pursue this for yourself. That's different from socially badgering others into it at group events.
I haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.
So in other words, you disagree with the post I'm replying to?
> I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.
You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have. Also, there's the whole matter of various public school systems. Regardless, if there hasn't been any pressure for you, then this is sort of a non-sequitur, as my comment is talking about situations where there is pressure to begin with. Non-pressure situations are out of scope.
> You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have.
Ok, such as?
> Non-pressure situations are out of scope.
I am attempting to say this with respect, believe me: I am saying the pressure is not real. At least in my experience, it's not worth your time. I respect that you may have a different situation than I do, and you may experience pressure of this type differently than I do, but "pressure" strikes me as subjective because in fact there are no real consequences that I'm aware of (as in legal, regulatory, etc). And, without further details, we can freely end here dismissing eachothers' perspectives as irrelevant.
are you willing to take the Pepsi challenge? next event you go to that does the anthem ritual, i challenge you to not participate by sitting down. see what kind of not real pressure you feel then.
> real consequences that I'm aware of (as in legal, regulatory, etc)
So if I understand correctly, the argument is that social pressure isn't real pressure and can be dismissed as inconsequential? If that's the case, then yeah, I think this is played out and we can call it here.
(Not because I strongly agree or disagree with such a notion, I just kind of think it would be getting off into the weeds a bit much to continue at that point.)
This discussion has inflated scope from "I don't like attending events because it's weird we're required to say a hymn or pledge" stated by one person.
With response "well you don't have to say or sing - I don't"
All the way to arguing over whether I really feel social pressure and how Colin Capernick has to stand so obviously I'm wrong.
We're really deep in the weeds looking for a technicality to nitpic my original statement, don't you think?
Your original statement was "I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever." Maybe you meant that in some limited range, but it's hardly nitpicking to think you meant there was no pressure whatsoever.
Someone's not allowed to go to a sporting event because you say so? That's a load of crap. I'll go to whatever event I want. If they have one of these dear leader performances, I just stand there thinking about whatever is on my mind. If you like it, you can sing your little heart out. But I'm not going to not go to something I enjoy because you might get offended at my non-participation in your cult-like ritual
Because the person suggested that I not go to the event.
Also, as "not mandatory", have you ever chosen to remain seated and experienced the reaction from those around you? You'll definitely get the feeling "not mandatory" is a very much incorrect description.
> haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.
YMMV, but I do just stand up and not sing. It's not the end of the world. And some people always keep their hand down, instead of over heart. Again, I'm really not experiencing difficulties here, but I respect that there might be other factors. Like, do you live in the deep south?
I never said you weren’t allowed. I said if it bothers you so much you can choose not to attend.
My father in law stopped watching sports during the period where it became popular to kneel or not stand during the national anthem to protest or bring to light various social causes. In his view, those things don’t belong in sports. That was his choice, it’s not mine, but he didn’t make a big stink about it, he just chose to stop consuming that form of entertainment.
At some point you either conform, choose not to conform and deal with the consequences, or simply avoid these events. The rest of the populace doesn’t have to change their behavior just because you don’t like it.
Collectively we have become a society of intolerant crybabies. We don’t have to agree with everyone, but we do have to tolerate the common social norms unless we want to be that guy that gets unwanted attention.
In fact, I generally don't. On the other hand, that is not because I am bothered (or not) by such practices.
I'm really not sure what this has to do with the opinions being expressed by myself, parent, and GP here. I can avoid a behaviour and simultaneously have an opinion on the behaviour, which I am expressing here in response to others' opinions on said behaviour.
I very, very strongly disagree. If you hate the country you reside in so much, don’t show up to those events, or better yet, purchase a ticket to go live somewhere else that better suits you. I don’t have even the slightest bit of tolerance for that kind of apathetic, the-world-revolves-around-me attitude.
Sons had their legs blown off so you could be free to whine on an online forum about having to honor them for 60-seconds at sporting events you have the freedom to attend. Truly astounding.
Not following pathological nationalism isn't the same as "hating your country". Saying otherwise is just propagating a false dichotomy.
We can be thankful to live in this country without needing to force others to do so as well. In fact, to borrow from your earlier point, we actually have the freedom to hold a different opinion about nationalism/patriotism, unlike many oppressive countries.