[jvanderbot]

I haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

[mtrower]

So in other words, you disagree with the post I'm replying to?

> I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have. Also, there's the whole matter of various public school systems. Regardless, if there hasn't been any pressure for you, then this is sort of a non-sequitur, as my comment is talking about situations where there is pressure to begin with. Non-pressure situations are out of scope.

[jvanderbot]

> You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have.

Ok, such as?

> Non-pressure situations are out of scope.

I am attempting to say this with respect, believe me: I am saying the pressure is not real. At least in my experience, it's not worth your time. I respect that you may have a different situation than I do, and you may experience pressure of this type differently than I do, but "pressure" strikes me as subjective because in fact there are no real consequences that I'm aware of (as in legal, regulatory, etc). And, without further details, we can freely end here dismissing eachothers' perspectives as irrelevant.

[dylan604]

> I am saying the pressure is not real

are you willing to take the Pepsi challenge? next event you go to that does the anthem ritual, i challenge you to not participate by sitting down. see what kind of not real pressure you feel then.

[mtrower]

> socially badgering

> pressure is not real.

> real consequences that I'm aware of (as in legal, regulatory, etc)

So if I understand correctly, the argument is that social pressure isn't real pressure and can be dismissed as inconsequential? If that's the case, then yeah, I think this is played out and we can call it here.

(Not because I strongly agree or disagree with such a notion, I just kind of think it would be getting off into the weeds a bit much to continue at that point.)

[boomboomsubban]

>I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

Then why do you stand? You can get away without singing, but there is an immense amount of pressure on you to "show respect."

[jvanderbot]

I don't always stand. This is silly. I can't say you shouldn't feel your feelings and you can't say I should. Cheers!

[boomboomsubban]

It's pretty easy to prove there is pressure to stand, see Colin Kaepernick where not standing probably cost him his job.

[jvanderbot]

This discussion has inflated scope from "I don't like attending events because it's weird we're required to say a hymn or pledge" stated by one person.

With response "well you don't have to say or sing - I don't"

All the way to arguing over whether I really feel social pressure and how Colin Capernick has to stand so obviously I'm wrong.

We're really deep in the weeds looking for a technicality to nitpic my original statement, don't you think?

[boomboomsubban]

Your original statement was "I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever." Maybe you meant that in some limited range, but it's hardly nitpicking to think you meant there was no pressure whatsoever.

[jvanderbot]

I see. Removing that would make my post truer to it's original intent. Shame the edit window has passed.