[jawns]

> They tried to build their product from it and I wasn't able to tolerate that

If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would write a note to myself: "Be prepared for more of this."

> I also brought up the fact I had security concerns in regards to their systems when I went in person but that was brushed aside/ignored

If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.

> she kicked me out after my episode of psychosis

So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality, leading to them being kicked out of a house. I know it's important to avoid stigmatizing those with mental illness, but the person has indicated that they had a bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that this psychosis could occur again.

> I was able to social engineer myself into being a 'visitor' at a hospital for the past week

Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

> I'm going to go and try to find/steal some food now

Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

Edit: My last point was not meant to suggest that under these circumstances, stealing a bit of food is reprehensible. Sometimes you've gotta do what you've gotta do. But broadcasting it is the red flag. It indicates a lack of discretion. I'm not trying to be callous here, but GP asked about red flags, so I was trying to describe some.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

I agree with some of the points, but regarding the food and being in the hospital, those statements are really harsh. It's painful, but he said the truth and based on his post those description implied really serious alternatives (dying, getting sick due to extreme cold).

I would give kudos for honesty

[krowfooten]

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would write a note to myself: "Be prepared for more of this."

I agree with you, I wasn't able to provide the full story due to the HN character limit. The contract I signed when I took up work with them explicitly stated my public work will remain mine. If that wasn't in the contract I would have said no. As I put it, it might not be a great look. Thanks for bringing that up

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.

I agree, there probably is an established process I should have spent time looking into rather than raising the issue directly with the staff who work at the place/with the system itself. Like I said, I was a bit frustrated but it's definitely possible I could have brought that up in a more productive way

> So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality, leading to them being kicked out of a house. I know it's important to avoid stigmatizing those with mental illness, but the person has indicated that they had a bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that this psychosis could occur again.

That was my first and so far only episode of psychosis, from my point of view it wasn't so much a bad experience with treatment. But a bad experience by nearly ending up homeless after due to my family kicking me out after I stabilized in the hospital/received/participated in treatment for my first ever episode of psychosis.

> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

I lied about being a visitor compared to the very real alternative of freezing to death, shoot me lol

> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

I somewhat agree, I'm not proud of stealing food and I have already went to a foodbank/received $27 to buy some food but that unfortunately only lasted a few days and I started getting hungry again/haven't been able to find more support for food since. Although maybe I should just try harder. Either way, thanks for bringing up that broadcasting that is a red flag, that is something I should be a bit more wary of, I've made a mental note of that but I doubt I'll need it once I get back on my feet

[getwiththeprog]

A hungry man cannot steal food.

[Repulsion9513]

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would write a note to myself: "Be prepared for more of this."

I mean... ok? So don't try to make their FOSS product your own product?

> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.

Ew. I would wonder why the staff wasn't able to tell him there is a process.

> So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality

"years ago" in an unstable situation.

> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

I'm pretty sure "social engineer" here means something along the lines of "yeah I'm visiting my cousin"

> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

Unless they're working for a grocery store or restaurant I don't think their employer will be worried about them stealing food.

[refulgentis]

This reflects a viewpoint usually rectified by moral quandaries explored in elementary school, certainly middle school, fiction.

Much less, this gem, argumentation that you'd expect a 12 year old in debate class to be able to skewer if they wanted a B.

>> I'm going to go and try to find/steal some food now

> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.

[jddj]

While I agree that the food thing is neither here nor there, I didn't find the warning absurd. Once you've been through one of these difficult cases and seen the impact that it can have on the other employees it's hard to unlearn that lesson of caution.

This person needs social and professional help, and the situation is very unfortunate. But based on the content of the OP if you bring them into your workplace (the assumed context here in this particular thread) without those two things then you should be sure you know what you're doing.

[refulgentis]

Yeah sure that's reasonable.

"it's a red flag if an employee ever stole food for a meal / camped at a hospital while homeless" isn't.

Upper-class a-human inanity unrecognizable by 90% of the populace. I wouldn't believe it was a real person making an honest argument if I hadn't self-made my way from inner city Buffalo startup to Boston at Google, and found out how sheltered people can be.

[Last5Digits]

Thanks for this bit of sanity. I was losing my mind trying to think up an explanation as to why that comment wasn't flagged or inundated with comments pointing out the sheer stupidity and inhumane arrogance.

I don't want to be overly dramatic, but this has genuinely lowered my view of HN as a whole, and I'll think twice about reading the comments here from now on.

If I were to show this to any well-adjusted person I know, they'd probably think less of me for even being in the same community and profession as the person who wrote that comment.

[jddj]

Yeah, neither of those things make any difference to anything.

I also feel incredibly heartless for adding my own "be careful" message to this person's eager response to someone's plea for help, but there it is.

[tonyarkles]

I don't want to downplay anything you've said because I think you're pretty much on the mark.

>> I was able to social engineer myself into being a 'visitor' at a hospital for the past week

> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?

This is an unfortunate reality in Canada, especially in places where it gets cold enough to freeze to death during the winter (which most of Alberta would qualify for). Homeless shelters are full, the wait lists for social support, mental health support, and addiction support are long*, and hospitals are warm, publicly owned, and honestly so long as you're not making a nuisance of yourself they're probably not the worst place to hang out. There's usually public cafeterias and lots of seating throughout. Sleeping there would probably be a problem.

> bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment

This is another one of the oddities of the Canadian healthcare system. There's a few different categories of mental health support:

- Social services is free but often there isn't a whole lot they can help with. Employment Insurance (EI) has a pretty heavy paperwork burden and also requires you to have been employed recently and only lasts for a limited amount of time. Long-term disability has a lot of strings attached. If you do manage to find gainful income they take away your financial support 1:1; a woman I know went blind due to cancer when she was a teenager and was living in an apartment provided by social housing. She started making beaded jewelry and selling it at the farmer's market. Over a period of a year she managed to save up $500 to buy herself an iPad, which apparently has excellent accessibility features for blind users. When her social worker came by and saw it she threatened to deduct $500 off of the next disability cheque.

- There are psychiatrists available, for free, through the public healthcare system. They're by referral only and a referral must come from a GP. 20% of Canadians do not currently have a family doctor (~6M people) so their only access to psychiatric help is to convince a doctor at a walk-in clinic to make a referral. In most cases it's going to be months before you hear back. There are occasionally walk-in clinics that do have on-site psychiatrists but it's exceptionally rare.

- Psychologists and therapists are not covered by the public health system. Some do offer reduced rates for low-income patients but you're generally looking at somewhere in the $80-120/hr range. Like OP mentioned about astrology, there isn't a whole lot of quality control around this... you basically have to go interview them (and likely pay for the privilege) and make your own decision on whether or not you think they'll be someone you want to give more money to.

As an additional wrinkle, while healthcare is nominally free, prescription medication is not (although there was a big announcement around this yesterday, so that may be changing). Even if OP did manage to get an appointment with a psychiatrist and get an assessment and a prescription... how the heck are they going to pay for it? There are generally programs in place to provide medication discounts for low-income people but... again, paperwork burden and long turn-around times.

The brutal question that comes up on a pretty regular basis is: what do we do about people like OP? While we, in theory, have more humanity than just letting them freeze to death in the streets, we also do a piss-poor job at helping them get out of the situation they're in.

* Basically the only way to get seen by someone reasonably quickly is to tell them you're suicidal, but that'll probably result in an involuntary hold for a while.

[djbusby]

Well, I try to remember that if you see someone stealing food...no you didn't.