[ics]

While many here won't disagree in general, be wary of holding this sentiment as dogma. There can be bad apples in engineering, and MBAs who can see that whether or not they have the knowledge or experience to make it better themselves. Whether or not they can (or want to) make the next step of hiring better or more honest engineers is what matters then.

(I'm not optimistic about Boeing here, but hey.)

[bombcar]

Sometimes (as rare as you expect, likely) an MBA has the tooling to fight back against the standard business pressures to cut costs, whereas an engineer is basically defenseless.

Quite rare.

[pg_1234]

> There can be bad apples in engineering,

So true ... Jack Welch was an engineer.

[sonicanatidae]

>Jack Welch was an engineer.

That's a funny way of spelling "Self-entitled jackass, who would spit on his own mother for a nickel", but I'll accept it.

Edit: I guess the DVs are just ignorant idiots. here is just one example of how stellar of a guy ole Jack was:

Under Welch's leadership, GE waged a twenty-year battle with the Environmental Protection Agency and New York State over polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) that the company dumped into the Hudson River at its capacitor products division plant in Hudson Falls, New York.

[x3n0ph3n3]

The person you are quoting did not express approval of Jack Welch. You are being downvoted for being unnecessarily argumentative and inflamatory, not for being wrong.

[sonicanatidae]

Argumentative? I agreed that he was a jackass with a pithy comment about spelling.

Inflammatory? What else do you call a clown that would spit on his own mother for a nickel?

Point taken, but FFS. The man was a grand mal asshole and that should be mentioned every time his name appears.

[cqqxo4zV46cp]

You aren’t contributing to the conversation by going on a tirade.

[azemetre]

I disagree, learning how bad certain business people are is useful for society. Jack Welch ruined the lives of many families and played an explicit role in giving people cancer by dumping waste into public spaces.

Talking about this is doing a serious service.

[sonicanatidae]

And the OP wasn't contributing to the truth about Jack Welch by simply skipping past what a jackass he was. He was technically an engineer, and spent 30+ years ignoring engineering, integrity and common sense, for the sake of profits. That's faux engineer, at best.

Every single time assholes are mentioned, their assholery should be mentioned too. Let's not rewrite history for those unaware of how these "people" acted.

By your logic, the only thing that should be mentioned about Pol Pot is that he was a leader of Cambodia at one point.

[DonHopkins]

Unless he can bring it back to Star Trek ablative armor!

[Log_out_]

Any of the two intertwined organizations will eject bad apples towards the other?

[eastbound]

Yes but Boeing needs to send a message. A message that they understood how they failed, a message that they apologize, a message that they can be redeemed.

Sometimes, it’s about PR.

And culture, they haven’t changed. Boeing is still firing engineers, appointing MBAs, getting paid by politicians, and hiring on the revolving doors of local prisons. I wouldn’t even trust a burger flipped by this bunch. Boeing factories also need to move to other states before we trust them again.

[ics]

Sometimes. It's problematic if you're stuck in a loop of sending a message without actually making the hard or risky strategic decisions.