[throwaway49849]

The creation of the Vision Pro, and now this direct assault on the open web, makes me believe that Apple is no longer has the vision to lead the industry effectively. It's a shame because it has enormous momentum behind it, which means every bad decision, like this one, will be felt be millions of people for years.

[gizmo]

Apple is a 3 trillion business that is out of growth drivers. They will need to squeeze more money out of everybody in the ecosystem to appease wall street. Or launch a new 500bn product line but I don’t think they have anything big in the pipeline.

[sitkack]

The problem is that a large percentage of that pie is just rent seeking from App Store fees. The App Store should be opt in for all parties.

I think the analysis in this thread is correct, Apple wants to remove the “loophole” that was originally the only way to get apps on the device.

[pretext-1]

They’re working on cars for sure

[andy_ppp]

Will the Apple Car get slower over time and have the battery become unusable after 2 years?

[andy_ppp]

Impossible to service, imagine the cost of Apple Care, my guess would be $300 per month plus the cost of the car which will be $100k?

[kibwen]

When turning the steering wheel to the left causes the car to veer right, will the official response be "you're holding it wrong"?

[gizmo]

No money in cars. (That's why Tesla insists it's a robotics/AI company.)

[xyst]

I agree. Money is not in the cars. Money is in the data collected from the users - 360 degree camera footage, offloading AI training risk to users, and of course collecting all of that sweet user data [1]. In some cases, the car manufacturer will somehow collect your sexual history.

[1] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-...

[pas]

could you please elaborate on how/what the Vision Pro contributes to this problem?

[throwaway49849]

The AVP is one of the most out of touch products I've ever seen from a respected brand, and I can almost hear Steve Job's scathing criticisms of it, based on everything I know about him. Not to mention, it goes against the increasing trend of less screens and less tech. The fact that it got made and is being pushed so hard as the next step in computing, is bonkers.

So to me, it contributes because it is another data point that the leadership has compromised its ability to consistently make forward thinking decisions.

[threeseed]

> Steve Job's scathing criticisms of it, based on everything I know about him

Vision Pro patent from 2007 when Steve Jobs was still CEO:

https://twitter.com/ianzelbo/status/1753076050643575230

[throwaway49849]

Collecting patents is not proof of a great idea.

Exhibit A: Google's patent on a "sticky car" that is covered with adhesive, to stick to pedestrians when you hit them https://patents.google.com/patent/US9340178B1/en

[bbkane]

This is amazing, thanks for the link!

[FirmwareBurner]

Have you looked at the patent? How is that supposed to be the Vision Pro?

It's just a pair of sky googles with 2 displays in front of the eyes, connected to an Airpod for watching media. It's not so much Vision Pro as it is Nintendo Virtual Boy. Actually the virtual boy was more advanced since it let you play games.

That kind of stereo display headset for watching videos inputs from external sources has existed since the 70's, long before Apple's patent 2007. How did they even get a patent for it? Another proof the patent system is broken since it seems they'll let you patent anything.

[twobitshifter]

Here is Steve wanting headphones for video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W8HjoBL5fbU

[vdaea]

>it goes against the increasing trend of less screens and less tech

Where are you seeing this "increasing trend"?

Also, how should a tech company that makes money from selling gadgets react to this purported trend? Start selling chairs?

[throwaway49849]

I'm sure you can find conflicting information, but here is a data point that aligns with my own experiences:

"Human contact is becoming a luxury good." https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/sunday-review/human-conta...

>Also, how should a tech company that makes money from selling gadgets react to this purported trend?

That's like asking what cigarette companies were supposed to do when we found out cigarettes cause cancer.

[mettamage]

Apple not allowing the open web stifles innovation, including the AVP. The apps in the app store will be dictated by Apple. So whatever their ethical framework is, that is what will receive innovation.

While that seems fair, the problem is that the strongest form of software innovation I have seen is where developers can freely plug in.

[jimmySixDOF]

AVP has support for WebXR behind a flag in Safari that allows the full immersive mode of spatial computing (don't say Vee Are) and that -- so far untill now - is an opening for non-app store third party experiences.

[mouzogu]

spending 10s of billions of R&D towards a closed off walled garden for consuming Apple services.

afaik you cant even order AVP without an iPhone.

[mrkeen]

Eh.

Lightning instead of usb.

Firewire instead of usb.

Getting rid of all non-usbc ports.

Touch bar without physical escape.

Ctrl in the wrong place on the keyboard.

Every mbp looking the same with their attrocious glowing branding on the lid.

One-button mouse.

No audio jack.

The walled garden.

Charging a fee for the dev tools.

Yeah, these are all subjective - it's all crap I hate.

But my point is: is anything that anyone dislikes actually out of character for Apple? Or is it business as usual? Maybe Samsung will also create a useless headset and directly assault the open web too, making Apple still the 'industry leader'.

[Cockbrand]

OK, I'll bite. While I agree with many of your criticisms, some are IMHO incorrect.

- Apple did Firewire at a time when it was the leading interface for professional video stuff. As Apple marketed their computers to video professionals back then, it made a lot of sense. Also, USB 2.0 wasn't on the market yet or hardly had any adoption, and FW was pretty much the only modern high-speed serial interface. At the time, FW was also a much more capable (if more complex) interface than USB. After USB 2.0 got more adoption, FW 800 was released with almost twice the bandwidth of USB 2.0.

- Forcing USB C adoption upon the industry was a good thing, just like getting rid of floppy disks, serial and parallel ports, and Flash (the latter one being debatable as the beginner-friendly authoring system still leaves a big gap that hasn't been filled since). The transition period was admittedly very painful with all the adapters. But now pretty much all devices charge via USB C, just how neat is that? I know that Apple didn't give up Lightning for USB C in iPhones voluntarily, so they needed a bit of help by the EU in their own mission here :)

- They reversed on the touch bar, thus admitting their mistake. It was indeed horrible, though.

- The glowing Apple on the lid hasn't been there any more for a decade or so

- Dev tools aka Xcode are free, the fee you're probably referring to is for getting stuff into the App Store

In the end, you're correct - haters gonna hate, Apple will be Apple, people will buy their stuff anyway.

[tyleo]

Agreed with this. I feel like everyone complains about new Apple products. “The watch is square, no one will want it.”

Apple is still doing fine. I'm at least going to wait a few years before making claims about the Vision Pro being a failure.