[pgsandstrom]

I have a somewhat unrealistic dream that someday dating apps will be viewed the same way as roads: Essential infrastructure that needs to be handled by the public. A government developed dating app whose only goal is to help people find healthy relationships. All my american friends balk at this. But as a swede, I dont think it is completely impossible.

The completely impossible dream would be that we as a society stopped using dating apps and just met away from the keyboard instead.

[essenddotnet]

Given their precipitous fall in TFR, certain Japanese prefectures have actually started taking this approach, most notably Tokyo [1]. I don't think your dream is _all that_ unrealistic

[1] https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/tokyo-gov...

[wouldbecouldbe]

Haha this sounds like the plot for a dystopian futuristic government where based on data they automatically select the right mate for you.

But joking aside. Not everything should be solved by the government, dating is supposed to be messy, unpredictable and a bit dangerous.

We are humans not machines.

[maxsilver]

> All my american friends balk at this. But as a swede, I dont think it is completely impossible.

(as an American, balking at this): The American government is too irresponsible and corrupt to ever handle something like this -- it would get abused so quickly, and thus, no regular person would trust it.

Having a single dating app/profile as a free public service is a good idea in theory, but the pre-requisite of having a "functioning, selfless, responsible government, invested only in the public good" is just not a thing we're gonna get here.

[alistairSH]

And yet the government mostly does what we ask of it. USPS gets mail to the most remote locations for the price of a stamp. State and the military both protect our interests overseas (for better or worse). Healthcare.gov works pretty well (after that rocky rollout).

It's far from perfect, but I don't feel like it's any more dysfunctional than any other western democracy.

[mattmaroon]

It’s less dysfunctional than most organizations 1/10th its size.

[red-iron-pine]

having worked at, or consulted at, several F500 orgs... I believe it.

most could be politely described as "basket cases" or "cluster hugs" (hugs being the operative word). but they had so much inertia and so many assets that were effective on ground they couldn't be stopped.

anything outside of core business drivers were a mess, but they could still make in rain in their core competencies.

the level of corruption was also shocking. CTOs packing the PMO and Procurement teams to approve contracts, including 400k consulting fees to a company, only a few months old, and owned 100% by the CTOs wife. Sales Engineers offering "acquisition fees" for going with their SaaS offering. People fighting to get to be the gatekeepers for new RFPs so they could milk the baksheesh.

[mattmaroon]

Right and if you wanted to make money by being immoral, you’d have a lot better odds of success, and probably both less chance of being caught and less penalty, if you did, in the private sector.

A senator gets paid a tiny percent of what a c-suite exec does and there are much fewer of them. I know all sorts of small business owners who make more money than POTUS (though I suppose much fewer if you count speaking fees after retirement) or anyone in Congress. Etc.

I mean there’s corruption and graft and stuff, and plenty of waste, but for its size, I think our government is wonderful. The more I learn about other ones the more positively I feel about ours.

And here’s a way I like to think about things when there are big topics that are confusing. I ask “if you were wrong, would you still think you were right?” I often ask friends if Bing were better than Google (which I’ve never met anyone who thinks it is) would they know it? They say yes but then I ask them the last time they tried switching, or even know someone who did, and they realize that even if Bing was 20% better than Google they would still think it isn’t.

I think it’s the same with government. If ours were better than every other one in the world we’d mostly still think it wasn’t by sheer inertia and the marketing done by politicians to convince us it isn’t.

Im sure it isn’t the best in the world, but I think all the better ones are smaller wealthier countries that just have a much easier job.

[randomdata]

> And yet the government mostly does what we ask of it.

That's the problem, though. What we ask of a dating app is roughly "Give me access to partners that are 'out of my league'." It might work for some people sometimes, but it's not satisfiable in any meaningful way.

It's like asking the government to "Make me rich" – something we do ask of the government! It does what it can, giving some people the opportunity to become rich sometimes, but it's not meaningfully satisfiable either. And that is where the ideas of corruption and irresponsibility come into play. "He got rich. I didn't. The government must favor him!"

Few want a dating app for "healthy relationships". One only has to step outside in a reasonably populous area to find all kinds of healthy relationship opportunities staring them right in the face. But that's not what people, generally speaking, are looking for.

[whstl]

> What we ask of a dating app is roughly "Give me access to partners that are 'out of my league'."

I don't really believe this is what we ask of apps.

It is however what that the current apps promise us.

If I install one of those apps, I need to swipe a lot of people to see an average woman. If I were single, I would probably be ok with the first 50 that show up if they weren't bots or onlyfans bait.

[randomdata]

Apps only get used if they deliver what people want. Apps promise that because that's what people want. (There are always exceptions)

> I need to swipe a lot of people to see an average woman.

Right. If you were after an average woman (and an average woman was after you, we'll say someone also average), there would be no value proposition in swiping endlessly to find each other. You could both just step outside. There are average people abound.

But the likelihood is that at least one of you, if not both, seek someone who is more than average. A connection isn't being made outside because either one or both parties is saying, implicitly or explicitly, "No thanks."

And fair enough. If you think you can have something that you perceive as being better, why wouldn't you try to go for it? (Exceptions notwithstanding)

[whstl]

But the app doesn't promise women or men. It promises potential contacts. And it delivers. That's why people pay premium, etc.

If you read again what I said, I never said I was looking specifically for an average woman. What I said is that it takes some time to show them.

This changes expectations drastically. It also changes possibility of meeting someone that's "at your league", unless you use the app constantly, apply some strategy (such as swiping "no" to a lot of pretty people), or simply pay.

[mattmaroon]

That’s just marketing by politicians trying to get elected. “Our government sucks, pick me and I’ll fix it” has been every politicians message since Reagan. It isn’t real.

For an organization that size, it functions incredibly well in most respects. Nobody would claim it to be perfect (and you’re probably right that nobody would trust it even if it were, because so many have accepted that marketing) but it could handle simple tasks like a dating app.

It maybe shouldn’t. But I don’t think corruption is or in this case would be a real issue.

[alistairSH]

It maybe shouldn’t. But I don’t think corruption is or in this case would be a real issue.

I'd be more concerned about aligned incentives. A (modern, democratic) government exists to help maximize the social welfare of the governed. Is there enough societal gain to be had by entrusting mate-matching to the government? And are those gains in sync with the goals of the individuals?

Fictional example: In a politically polarized society, there might be a benefit to matching extremists with either moderates or extremists from the other end of the political spectrum.

Another: In order to bring economic balance, the government might decide to match the wealthy with the working class.

[mattmaroon]

Well, a lot of people are concerned about the low birth rate, and a good online dating app might be helpful. And a not-for-profit model might actually be the best way to accomplish that.

I am neither sure that the common claim of why online dating is broken is true, nor that a government-run app is a good idea. Im just sure the “our government is incompetent and corrupt” argument is drastically oversubscribed to.

You know what government is 100 times as corrupt and incompetent as ours? Cuba. And they make some of the finest cigars and rum in the world. Surely ours could come up with something better than Tinder.

[alistairSH]

I get the impression the birth rate is a function of cost, not opportunity.

Sample bias ahead: My friends are mostly married. Those that have zero or one child did so because of the cost (both in real dollars, opportunity cost, and general pain-in-the-ass of raising children in the US today), not the inability to find a suitable mate.

[mattmaroon]

Well sure, it’s not a total solution by any means, but there are people (including myself) who want kids but never had them because they didn’t find the right person with which to do so.

One only needs to increase the birth rate by about 25% to get back to population growth, so good online dating could probably make a meaningful impact. I am sure things like free health care and child care would be much better but they’d also be much more expensive, a decent online dating app could easily be at least budget neutral.

[Yizahi]

Would a single government (for example USA) operating such service be better on average than a single megacorp (for example Match.com)? I think corporate overreach in the democracy is way bigger than government overreach. At least in such simple and inconsequential case.

[whstl]

The problem with Match.com seems to be the fact they do too much (algorithms).

Something non-profit would be able to be better just by having less cash...

The spam problem might be too much, sure, but that also happens in the big apps, so...

[runamuck]

The Government could also match people based on a political agenda. I don't know why they would do that, but the idea fascinates me. Any creative types want to spin this into a "Black Mirror" script?

[commandlinefan]

And every pretty girl _somehow_ ends up matching with an employee of governmentdatingservice.com.

[Yizahi]

Match the similar view or opposite views? :)

[runamuck]

Good point. So, if the "Team Edward" party wants to dilute the "Team Jacob" party, they could match "Team Jacob" with attractive "Team Edward" companions who will raise their kids "Team Edward."

[quickslowdown]

I think it's less insane to trust the Swedish government to implement something like this responsibily than the US government. As a US citizen, absolutely no thank you to a government dating app, it's too ripe with temptation for them to be overreaching and irresponsible with the data they collect.

[dotcoma]

I own NSAdates.com — any takers? ;)

[qup]

This is the ultimate business. You don't have to even host profiles, these guys can "background check" each other.

It'll just be a just of names.

Err...aliases.

[suoduandao3]

no such agency or no strings attached? ;)

[dotcoma]

Good one(s)!

[dylan604]

Where's the conspiracy theories that it would be pairing families and connections more than personalities?

[runamuck]

See my comment above.

[adrianN]

China might implement something like this. The opportunities for subtle eugenics with such an app…

[randomdata]

The government here maintains a job database, which is basically the same thing. In practice, people still go to the for-profit job sites. Unless other dating apps are outlawed, it's unlikely the government brings a value proposition to see users use it over the alternatives.

> whose only goal is to help people find healthy relationships.

Especially if this is what is designed around. I expect you will find that most people using dating apps aren't looking for healthy relationships – they could have found hundreds of those just walking down the street – but are trying to find something else.

[almatabata]

Before we go this route I would like to see what real competition looks like. They should break up the Match group and force those dating apps to actually really compete for users. I would love to know if new apps would maintain these tactics if they remain outside the Match group.

[komadori]

Singapore has something akin to a state-run dating agency since 1984: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Development_Network

[sevagh]

Government arranged marriages.

[sumuyuda]

There are other options to private capitalism than the government. Could be a non-profit/NGO/worker owned collective. Maybe these types on organizations could provide a better product/experience, as they aren’t orientated around maximizing the profit.

[aidenn0]

I've seriously considered starting a non-profit that runs a site that works like one of the pre- match.com acquisition dating sites. I suspect 99% of costs will be combating spam profiles, which really isn't how I want to spend my time though.

[tivert]

> I have a somewhat unrealistic dream that someday dating apps will be viewed the same way as roads: Essential infrastructure that needs to be handled by the public.

Honestly, if the government gets involved, I hope it just kills the whole category with fire and bans them all, so we can stop with this atomized, app-mediated bullshit. Match Group's shareholders will be very sad, and I will be happy to play them a tune on the world's smallest violin.

But capitalism doesn't optimize for good outcomes, it optimizes for the shittiest thing that can be monetized that people will just barely tolerate. It also will use the power of propaganda to drown out and destroy any non-market competitors, so we feel we have to use that shitty thing.

[carlosjobim]

> A government developed dating app

And there it is! I think I have never ever seen an article posted on HN without somebody in the comment advocating for a government takeover. Even for dating apps now! If you examine official policy of the Soviet Union, not even Lenin was _that_ communist.

Tomorrow's article on HN: "How to make my three year old eat his vegetables?" In the comments: "The government should mandate that he eats his vegetables!"

[quickslowdown]

Calm down there, friendo, nobody's saying the government should take over dating. What everyone here is talking about is an alternative to the current match.com-owned, for-profit state of affairs. A public option without a profit motive.

It doesn't hurt to have that alongside competition, for those who would want to use it. I personally would not use a service like that, but some governments could be sane enough to implement it as a service to the public.