[sethrin]

The worldview here seems to be that women are sex objects and treating them like human beings is optional -- there is no utility in being "nice" or "cheerful" if it doesn't get you laid.

A lot of dating advice for men is women trying to explain how they feel about people who are larger, stronger, and think that they have some sort of right to sex.

[friend_and_foe]

I see the points you're making and largely agree, but I think people see people as objects generally speaking. If you live in a somewhat densely populated place, where a part of the environment you have to navigate day to day is people you don't know, you grow to see people this way, as obstacles or as useful, like a crab viewing another crab as a step up towards the top of a bucket. We tend to view people we don't know as simply forces on the world around us, traits of the environment, like a tree or a hill. Only when we get to know the individuals a bit can we even begin to see the person inside, until then they're just another face with unknown motives and drives behind it.

So yeah, people treat dating like a meat market. It's unfortunate, and it is exacerbated by cultural trends, but I generally think it is unavoidable for people who live in an environment with a lot of other people they're not immediately familiar with, which is a majority of us.

[sethrin]

The point I was making was not about objectification but about risk. I don't necessarily approve of objectification but I don't see it as a deciding factor in sexual success. Someone who sees other people as things to be used is probably not great, but someone who will react violently to being denied sex is a serious threat, particularly if they also happen to have physical advantages.

Any given day, hey, maybe I feel like being treated like a piece of meat, but thinking I owe you sex in exchange for your being "nice" or "cheerful" is dangerous.

[true_religion]

For most people, the angst isn’t even about having sex. The idea of having sex is a far off goal. They are simply trying to get to step one: dating. Or even step zero: reciprocal attraction.

[yCombLinks]

I don't think that lines up with my worldview at all. I'm not sure how you get to that interpretation. Most men's deepest connection comes from their romantic relationships. Romantic relationships are (usually) started from mutual sexual attraction. Being overly nice and cheerful is far more likely to get you placed in in the asexual bucket. It's exactly your shaming attitude these overly nice men are trying to placate.