[rahimnathwani]

I've lived in San Francisco for over 4 years. I cycle, walk, drive, and take public transport. If I were about to cross at an intersection with a stop sign, the sight of an approaching car would create more fear and caution in me, than would the sight of an approaching bicycle.

> California drivers do often fail to come to a technical stop at intersections, but they first slow to a near-zero speed that very nearly accomplishes the same purpose.

It very nearly accomplishes the same purpose only from the point of view of other drivers. When a driver in SF approaches an intersection, they're looking out for other cars, working out whether they'll be able to slow down and continue, or they'll need to stop. If they don't see another car that will have priority, they won't stop. So:

- they may not see the pedestrian that's just reached the intersection, and/or

- the pedestrian that's just reached the intersection won't know whether the car is going to stop, so they won't attempt to cross

When I drive, I'm sometimes frustrated when I stop at an intersection, wait for a pedestrian to start crossing, and they're slow to get started. Then I remember it's the behavior of drivers that has conditioned pedestrians to yield even when they have right of way.

[godelski]

> Then I remember it's the behavior of drivers that has conditioned pedestrians to yield even when they have right of way.

I similarly have mixed mode of transportation. I'll admit that when walking I will frequently fully stop in the middle of crossing an intersection. Many people do come to abrupt stops at stop signs and from the perspective of a pedestrian it is difficult to differentiate, especially when it is unclear that a driver sees you. I sure am not going to risk it, so I stop, and am sure to make sure that driver sees me. But similarly, it makes me more sympathetic to pedestrians and cyclists and I will approach intersections differently when they are around and do my best to make sure they know I see them. When driving, walking, and cycling you are operating in very different environments despite being in the same place. People tend to do things for reasons and if an action is common within a group it would be naive to not consider why this behavior develops.

[azinman2]

> If they don't see another car that will have priority, they won't stop.

There's a difference between stop and slow down. There are some people who barely slow down and that's totally illegal and blatantly bad. It's also a minority of the time. Most people do significantly slow if not stop at intersections, regardless if there's another car with the right of way or not.

This is a big mischaracterization. That said, I do see cyclists blowing through stop signs ALL THE TIME, often totally dangerously with other cars (including me) at the intersection with them.

[rahimnathwani]

> There's a difference between stop and slow down.

Yes, that's exactly my point!

Going 2mph through a stop sign is materially different from stopping at the line. When you stop, you can confirm that the intersection is clear (and that there are no pedestrians about to cross).

> It's also a minority of the time.

If you had to guess, what would you say is the median speed of cars across the lines at stop signs in SF?

> That said, I do see cyclists blowing through stop signs ALL THE TIME, often totally dangerously with other cars (including me) at the intersection with them.

I guess we drive in different parts of the city. I see this, but not often.

[azinman2]

I’d say the median speed is 0, since probably a majority of the time there are other cars.

I see bikes blowing through all over the city, not just where I live. Just yesterday I was in the Richmond and a bike not only didn’t stop but it was AFTER I was fully stopped at the stop sign and about to start driving.