[brigadier132]

> The goal of school IS NOT to make you a good office worker

Who defines this "goal"? Each student has their own individual goals. I bet you if you surveyed students

"The goal of school is to create the ability to think creatively, rationally and critically and make you a better citizen of society through those processes."

Would rank all the way to the bottom and they all are terrible reasons to get into $200k of debt.

Many go to college without a second thought just because they think it's what they are supposed to do. Many go because they don't want to be a manual laborer and they want to be able to make more money. Many go to get drunk and party.

[etrautmann]

This is such a cynical and tired take. I would imagine that most people attending college at least intend to learn something and level up some ability. Many of them will also enjoy partying in their early 20s. Both can be true, and there’s not a singular purpose of attending school.

[brigadier132]

> This is such a cynical and tired take

Good job, starting off strong with a real substantive criticism.

> I would imagine that most people attending college at least intend to learn something and level up some ability.

Your imagination is lacking and you have not spoken with many 18 year olds, the vast majority are not highly motivated learners. A large number of degrees teach skills that are not even valuable enough to pay back the amount of money that is put in. So they are leveling up in worthless shit. All these indebted graduates are clamoring to have the government pay for their bad decisions. None of them blame the institutions that charge these exorbitant amounts to supposedly become "cultured" and "creative".

[JumpCrisscross]

> the vast majority are not highly motivated learners

The honest truth is they shouldn't be going to college. Because they went to school and didn't come out cultured or creative.

(I went to a state school. It was easy to structure your schedule with zero liberal arts. I almost did. To the extent I have regrets about my time in college, it's in not taking more liberal arts classes.)

[brigadier132]

> To the extent I have regrets about my time in college, it's in not taking more liberal arts classes.

I also went to a state school, I took the liberal arts classes, they have added nothing of value to my life. If you want to get cultured, read.

[spamizbad]

> I also went to a state school, I took the liberal arts classes, they have added nothing of value to my life. If you want to get cultured, read.

I think that means you were very fortunate. For me, 2 years at a community college was essential for getting my career in tech off the ground. Learning to write at the college level, being able to read/search/cite journals, and the practice of being able to synthesize a bunch of information into a cohesive document and/or presentation opened a ton of doors for me.

I get the impression some people figure this stuff out either through more demanding work in high school or from having smart parents who inculcate this knowledge into their kids. For me, I didn't have that.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I took the liberal arts classes, they have added nothing of value to my life

Sure, many were useless. But the few that were good were golden. Sorry you missed that.

> If you want to get cultured, read

This is necessary but insufficient. The discussion is essential. To be clear, I'm not saying you can't become cultured outside college. (Of course you can.) But that coming out of college uncultured is close to a waste for most graduates, i.e. those graduating with a degree that isn't immediately in high demand at a six-figure wage.

If a student isn't a highly-motivated learner, and their goal is maximising lifetime net earnings, they shouldn't be going to college.

[brigadier132]

> If a student isn't a highly-motivated learner, and their goal is maximising lifetime net earnings, they shouldn't be going to college

I disagree. I think further education in valuable topics is valuable to people even if they are not motivated. I don't think getting into massive debt for this education is valuable to them. There is nothing inherent about college that requires it to be so expensive and simultaneously useless.

All the defenders of the current system always respond with the tired "college is not about teaching how to do a job, it's about teaching culture, creativity, and critical thinking" bullshit that is not backed by any data. If we go by actual results, college is about getting people into massive debt to fund college administrators.

What college and education should be about is teaching people things that can give them the ability to contribute to themselves and others.

[cooper_ganglia]

My girlfriend in high school had no idea what she wanted to major in, no idea what career she wanted, no idea what her future looked like at all. Anytime I'd ask her, she'd get upset, because she didn't want to stress about it before she had to.

We eventually broke up, and she went to college, changed her major 3 times, spent the whole time drunk at parties, and graduated with a degree with a relatively limited scope of jobs. She graduated 4 years ago, during which she's worked as a receptionist, a dog groomer, and a call center rep.

We shortly got back together as she was graduating college, and I encouraged her to apply for jobs for which her degree would come in handy. Every single time, she refused, because she "wasn't qualified enough" even though she had her Bachelors in what they were asking for.

I say all this to say that I think many kids are corralled into college without an actual end goal in mind. They go because it's what they're supposed to do. In my anecdotal experience, there isn't much thought about intending to learn or leveling up some ability.