[JumpCrisscross]

> the vast majority are not highly motivated learners

The honest truth is they shouldn't be going to college. Because they went to school and didn't come out cultured or creative.

(I went to a state school. It was easy to structure your schedule with zero liberal arts. I almost did. To the extent I have regrets about my time in college, it's in not taking more liberal arts classes.)

[brigadier132]

> To the extent I have regrets about my time in college, it's in not taking more liberal arts classes.

I also went to a state school, I took the liberal arts classes, they have added nothing of value to my life. If you want to get cultured, read.

[spamizbad]

> I also went to a state school, I took the liberal arts classes, they have added nothing of value to my life. If you want to get cultured, read.

I think that means you were very fortunate. For me, 2 years at a community college was essential for getting my career in tech off the ground. Learning to write at the college level, being able to read/search/cite journals, and the practice of being able to synthesize a bunch of information into a cohesive document and/or presentation opened a ton of doors for me.

I get the impression some people figure this stuff out either through more demanding work in high school or from having smart parents who inculcate this knowledge into their kids. For me, I didn't have that.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I took the liberal arts classes, they have added nothing of value to my life

Sure, many were useless. But the few that were good were golden. Sorry you missed that.

> If you want to get cultured, read

This is necessary but insufficient. The discussion is essential. To be clear, I'm not saying you can't become cultured outside college. (Of course you can.) But that coming out of college uncultured is close to a waste for most graduates, i.e. those graduating with a degree that isn't immediately in high demand at a six-figure wage.

If a student isn't a highly-motivated learner, and their goal is maximising lifetime net earnings, they shouldn't be going to college.

[brigadier132]

> If a student isn't a highly-motivated learner, and their goal is maximising lifetime net earnings, they shouldn't be going to college

I disagree. I think further education in valuable topics is valuable to people even if they are not motivated. I don't think getting into massive debt for this education is valuable to them. There is nothing inherent about college that requires it to be so expensive and simultaneously useless.

All the defenders of the current system always respond with the tired "college is not about teaching how to do a job, it's about teaching culture, creativity, and critical thinking" bullshit that is not backed by any data. If we go by actual results, college is about getting people into massive debt to fund college administrators.

What college and education should be about is teaching people things that can give them the ability to contribute to themselves and others.

[JumpCrisscross]

> further education in valuable topics is valuable to people even if they are not motivated

Sure, but that doesn’t need to be college. Many European countries have colleges in name only that actually function as trade schools. An unmotivated learner should go to a cheap 2-year trade school and then start earning.

> college is about getting people into massive debt to fund college administrators

Completely agree. That said, we have standout colleges where the purpose is to educate our next generation of elites. That’s still important.