[jawngee]

Yeah try importing a CPAP from the states into Vietnam if you want a real adventure.

A $650 cpap machine costs well over $2K here. So I thought I'd import one. Apparently you need a prescription in the states? Ok, get a "prescription" from an online service that basically just asks you if you snore over a video call. Amazing.

Buy machine and have it sent to a freight forwarding service. They fuck up the paperwork.

It gets held in Vietnamese customs for almost 4 months. Go down to customs once a week to argue with the guy. One week you can't have it because it looks used. It doesn't look used.

Next week you can't have it because they think I'm importing to resell it. Yes it's a very hot market right now.

Repeat same processes with different people next successive weeks.

Finally someone says to bring prescription. But they don't write prescriptions for CPAPs here. A lot of hand waving when you tell them that. Go back to cardiologist who told me to get the CPAP and ask for a prescription. Oh no, he says, we don't write prescriptions for that. Can you write a letter saying that you don't write prescriptions and that I need the machine? Oh no, he says, I can't do that.

A couple of weeks later finally get someone at customs to agree that my sleep apnea test is proof enough. Bring the test in. Nobody looks at it. They still release the machine to me.

I would still take this random bureaucracy over American insurance any day of the week though.

[EdwardDiego]

I feel like you were expected to pay a gratuity several times in that process and they were baffled you didn't.

[appplication]

My friend does export/import into SEA. You don’t just have to know who/when to bribe, you have to have an insider set up already. They used to have a guy in customs who would take a monthly payment to forward all her packages through without a second look. He disappeared and then trying to find the next one took months. Nothing was getting through customs, and showing up at the office they would deny any attempts to bribe. It is definitely a very coded art finding the right person, price, and parameters to get something set up like that.

[Solvency]

It's always a guy with a gun. Fact of life. Border crossings? Find the guy with the biggest gun and bribe him. South America, Eastern Europe, etc. Import/exports have armed security too.

[failingslowly]

I love this tip, but I sincerely hope I never have to use it.

[jawngee]

I tried but they wouldn't accept it.

[aniforprez]

I've dealt with this many times as a South Asian person and it is very possible they still do actually want money. Most people will not ask in a straightforward manner for money and when you offer to pay them, they act all offended. This is a stupid game that I have no idea how it started where they will pretend to not want the money but will still very obviously want it. This has stumped me, being mildly autistic, for the decades of my existence and also stumps foreigners a lot. I cannot proffer a solution. Sometimes asking works, most of the time it doesn't and the other party feels unhappy about it and then when you decide enough is enough and want to pay, another guessing game begins where you need to gauge what amount satisfies them. It's incredibly goddamn annoying and I wish they just told you they want a bribe or money instead of engaging with these weird, obtuse, coy behaviours and then I have to obsess over whether I made a faux pas by paying/not paying them

[Solvency]

It's their culture of saving face. The solution is extremely simple.

You tell the person "I was told I had to pay this <X fee> to release my package but I don't know who or where I pay" while waving the cash around cluelessly. The person will 100% then offer to take it and "handle it from there" under the stupid guise of plausibility.

[bethekind]

Asian culture never ceases to confuse me. Nothing is ever straightforward.

I tried giving a gift to some, as thanks for letting me sleep on their couch. They told me no no no. I asked my friends about it, they told me it's about face.

Omg, I get that honor is a big thing, but it makes normal interactions way more complicated.

[EdwardDiego]

Every culture has things like this.

"You'll have to pop in next time you're in the area!" does NOT mean "turn up at my house unannounced". Even if it sounds like it.

Or "How are you going?" is not a prompt to actually tell them how you're going.

[ipqk]

Well, maybe start by not thinking that there's a singular "Asian culture".

[RufusJacksons]

This. I bribed my way out of many traffic tickets in Southeast Asia by suggesting that because I’m so busy, I’ll pay the cop directly and then he can pay the ticket on my behalf. Worked every time except once, where the guy was a real stickler

[aniforprez]

I will try this next time. Thanks for the tip

[figassis]

Often they’re afraid they’re being recorded. So the conversation should be more like asking for unrelated advice and then making some type of friendship, maybe asking for their contact if you needed any more clarification, etc. Also, they might have a trust network, like you get to them through their friends. So you should ask your friends if they know someone working in this department etc, and get an intro. That way they feel safer. You don’t have to pay them monthly, but yeah, do occasionally compensate them for no reason.

Regarding money, you should start with cash. Have an amount you think is fair on your pocket. Tell them this is what you have and thank for their help. If they don’t look happy or they reject/ask for more, tell them it though, but that you need check if you have more in your car. If the difference is a lot, say you need to ask friend for help. Go back to your car, pretend to talk to someone and come back with more. If they really want a lot more, ask for they’re bank account and tell them you’ll need to transfer (throughout make sure to show them that they asking for a lot and this is very hard for you, you have kids, need to eat, get a cab, pay a loan, etc). Also if you tell them you’ll transfer from a different bank than theirs, they might settle on the cash because interbank transfers are not same day.

All this varies by country and what methods of payment are available.

[Log_out_]

TL, Dr:Slide it into the paperwork so no face is lost

Sounds like they thought they caught a reseller endangering somebodies sales friendship.

[BossingAround]

"Gratuity" is an amazing euphemism for corruption in a system :))

[EdwardDiego]

Haha, yeah, I was thinking air-quotes when I typed it.

[samstave]

Who's an expat who knows sliding some cheese? Not this guy.

[Roritharr]

I learned recently that you want a fixer that knows and bribes people where it's customary and expected. Going through lengthy processes deaf to the trigger phrases will make your life, which could be incredibly easy, unbearably hard in many countries.

[gwd]

It is worth pointing out that (at least according to the corporate training I have to take every year) this is considered illegal by the US government for a US citizen to do even not on US soil; if the Feds get wind of it and feel like making a point they could throw you in jail, even with an intermediary "fixer".

[Roritharr]

That's why these services are usually provided by "expat services agencies" that do these things intransparently to your knowledge.

[mcculley]

Other common terms are “broker” or “agent”. I pay the agent. He deals with the local bureaucracy. He knows what things should cost.

[brnt]

It's amazing how based on the label, people are fooled.

At least people in Vietnam don't kid themselves and call a bribe a bribe.

[15155]

The FCPA allows "grease payments" to officials performing their official duties.

[coredog64]

As a consultant, I have to take FCPA training an average of 3 times a year. So although I’m not a lawyer, my take is that it’s only allowed if you can point to official documentation that lays out an expedited action fee schedule.

Paying a third party is just as illegal. However, unless you’re expecting to run for Congress, nobody is going to care that you bribed some low level foreign customs agent to get your ink cartridges released.

[dreamcompiler]

You didn't pay close enough attention in class. The US FCPA [0] explicitly allows "grease payments" (which is what we are talking about here) so long as they're not illegal in the country in question.

Grease payments are paid for the purpose of expediting a task that a low-level official is required to do anyway as part of their job, e.g. release a package from customs hell.

The FCPA prohibits bribes which are payments intended to influence high-level decision-makers to make a decision in your favor when they are not otherwise required to do so.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Ac...

[EdwardDiego]

There were some massive bribery scandals in the late 70s where pretty much entire governments were coopted by US corporates that these laws arose in response to.

[samstave]

Where we get the term "Banana Republic!" for such dispicibles as the DOLE family - who, we only know the white-washed name by their offspring Bob Dole charading as a nice ol' grampa type but a good ol' corporate boy.

--

One of the major scandals associated with the Dole family is the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy. Sanford Ballard Dole used his government influence and self-appointed position in Hawaii to push the US toward taking over the islands in the late 1890s. The Dole fruit company in Hawaii rose out of the bloodless Hawaiian coup staged by the Dole and the US government in 1893. Another scandal involved the Dole Food Company, where a jury found that Dole should pay $2.5 million in punitive damages to five workers who claimed they were made sterile by use of a pesticide on Nicaraguan banana plantations in the 1970s.

[nimos]

Honestly I don't think most people need a "fixer" - just any local friend. Either they will know the expected bribe amount or they can figure it out. Also you might be able to get them to do stuff for you where all of the sudden the bribe is 1/10 the amount because they are local.

Maybe if you are doing more serious stuff like business or real estate it makes sense.

[mlinhares]

In specific countries, like Brazil, “fixer” is a real job (it’s called “despachante” there) and it’s supposedly someone that knows the bureaucracy and how to navigate it.

Most of the time when you need to deal with a government agency you’d go through one of them. They don’t advertise that they’ll bribe people to get it done but that’s how it works.

[matheusmoreira]

Their services are well worth it, bribes or not. The less you interact with brazilian bureaucracy, the happier you are.

[coldtea]

>Go down to customs once a week to argue with the guy. One week you can't have it because it looks used. It doesn't look used. Next week you can't have it because they think I'm importing to resell it.

Cousin Eddie: I'm real glad that things are going good for you, Clark.

Clark: Mm-hm.

Cousin Eddie: I got laid off when they closed that asbestos factory.

Clark: Ahem.

Cousin Eddie: And now, wouldn't you know it... ...the Army cut my disability pension... ...because they said the plate in my head wasn't big enough.

Clark: Shoo.

Catherine: Eddie, Clark and Ellen don't want to hear about our troubles.

Clark: No, no. It's very interesting.

Aunt Edna: Why don't you just ask him for the money, Eddie? He sure as hell can't take a hint.

[xrd]

I recently read the book "Gaming Behind the Iron Curtain." It's about the former Soviet satellite states trying to play video games inside the Czech Republicb in the late 80s. They had to smuggle in computers hidden inside suitcases from England. This feels almost like the same thing.

I'm stuck in thinking that someone smart could break apart these CPAP machines and bring in necessary parts, then find other parts from China and hand carry those in. Then reassemble them inside Vietnam. A price differential of $1500 seems like an interesting arbitrage opportunity, maybe better than drug dealing. And there aren't chip sniffing dogs in the airport.

What a nightmare.

[stuaxo]

Sounds like the zx spectrum was almost built perfectly for that.

[bitwize]

Russians have a significant presence on the ZX Spectrum game and demo scene. There may be something to this.

[stevekemp]

There were several similar Z80-based systems made at the time, locally, such as the Hobbit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit_(computer)

[bitwize]

But to clone the Speccy they first had to obtain one (or a few) :)

[methou]

I had a similar experience but in Japan.

My CPAP machine was held by customs, they asked me to provide some extra paperwork from another department, which boiles down to a form and a "prescription". Fortunately they accept american prescriptions. I emailed all of the docs to the department, and they told me since I'm physically in Japan, I have to do what Japanese would do - send a physical mail in an envolope. A week later I got the approval mailed back to me, scanned them and emailed them back to the customs, they released my package.

Then, the shipper messed up with my address, they use a local partner for delivery, but failed to pass them my phone number and the second line in my address. Apparently the poor delivery guy attempted to deliver for a week, I found it out in the tracking page, called the customer service, they figured out and eventually have it delivered.

I thought it was terrible, but now.

[positr0n]

Back in the day I remember reading patio11 posts on navigating the Japanese bureaucracy and he described this as "doing SQL JOINs" across different departments by filling out forms and visiting each one.

[codewench]

Japanese customs is a special thing. I had a plastic Christmas tree held in quarantine for 9 months because the box said "tree", and all attempts to point out that the tree was in fact fake, and probably not of serious biological concern feel on deaf ears.

[forinti]

I don't know Vietnam, but to my South American sensibility, it looks like they were fishing for a bribe.

[lolc]

Fishing is not the phrase I'd used. Insisting on, maybe.

[bethekind]

I think "searching for a bribe" or "seeking a bribe" might be closer

[nimos]

Did you not try to pay some coffee money? Do you have local Vietnamese connections?

Seems like something you could have paid 500-1000k (20-40USD) and been done with.

[jawngee]

Yes they wouldn't accept it.

[natch]

You aren’t telling us how it was offered. Openly in front of multiple people, discretely, etc.

[jawngee]

Discretely, then my wife tried, then my mom's wife tried and then my wife's cousin who is an immigration cop tried.

I've lived here for 12 years, I know how it works.

[natch]

Thanks for clarifying.

[petesergeant]

If you need to do this again, fly to Bangkok, they have ResMed and Philips authorised resellers with machines already in country, although incredibly enough you can also just order them off Lazada

[yieldcrv]

lol I felt that last part

I had a business trying to get an institutional trading account, and all these compliance officers kept the application in limbo for a year

finally the exchange’s general counsel or someone maybe even the CFO said I needed to show my company’s AML/KYC policy.

I have my lawyer draft a comprehensive AML/KYC policy.

I told the financial institution that my legal counsel had prepared our "ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING AND “KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER” PROCEDURES Which should fulfill all of your company’s compliance goals”

And apparently that contained the magic words because they approved the account instantly, after being in account creation limbo for an entire year, they never even asked for or looked at the document

[verticalscaler]

It isn't good to argue that way in this part of the world, I hope you didn't raise your voice - not 100% sure about Vietnam but in any of its surrounding countries - they would lose face and become uncooperative.

I learned the hard way after a few experiences like yours to telegraph as little frustration or anger as humanly possible. Reasoning also only goes so far.

But if you appeal on some technicality, even a rule of your own invention..

Carol Beer presents differently across cultures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pw8m_NTJ_0).

[jevoten]

> Next week you can't have it because they think I'm importing to resell it.

With all the "free trade" agreements Vietnam is party to [1], you'd think this would be perfectly fine. Funny how that works, isn't it?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_Vietn...

[bugbuddy]

Your mistake was not bringing an envelope full of USD as evidence to be submitted to the relevant authority to expedite the service. Guess why it costs over $2k? Additional administrative taxes included. Also, you are supposed to do this through somebody that knows somebody that works somewhere.

[strawberryfie]

I guess random bureaucracy is ok when the treatment in question isn’t urgent.