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by kreeben 868 days ago
I don't follow. Are you saying we should hold off laws that deem e.g. teflon toxic, until there's teflon everywhere?

The government: There's almost no teflon in the ground, so that's good.

The market: Hold my beer.

3 comments

Teflon (PTFE) is not toxic. It is approved by the FDA for use in implantable medical devices. At normal working temperatures, it is one of the most chemically and biologically inert materials known to exist. PTFE has a number of unique properties that make it an irreplaceable material in a wide variety of applications.

Some of the feedstock chemicals used to produce PTFE are likely toxic. The most concerning of these is perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA); this is one of the chemicals that the EPA proposal applies to. Most manufacturers of PTFE have already voluntarily phased out the use of PFOA. There is some debate about whether the replacement feedstock chemicals are meaningfully less toxic. These feedstock chemicals can - and should - be prevented from ever entering the environment, which would largely nullify concerns about their toxicity.

You’re overselling it a bit. Teflon cookware at normal cooking temperature can be very harmful To birds and reptiles.
The maximum safe temperature for PTFE is uncertain, with many conflicting sources. Depending on your risk tolerance, you might accept anywhere from 200C to 250C. The former is easy to exceed by accident (personally tested using an IR thermometer), the latter is only likely to happen if you use incorrect technique, e.g. trying to sear meat on it, or leaving a hot pan unattended. PTFE is only suitable for gentle cooking.

The quality of the pan also makes a difference; cheap ones often use very thin metal that doesn't spread the heat well, resulting in hot spots.

I recommend using an IR thermometer to learn how your personal cooking setup behaves.

Is it? The reference I found quickly suggests that PTFE needs to be heated a bit above 530F before it starts to cause problems, and that’s not a normal cooking temperature for basically any purpose other than pizza.

Unfortunately, most stoves do no adequately control temperature, and it’s easy to reach that temperature by accident.

We're not allowed to begin bailing the water out of the sinking ship until the ship is sunk.

You'd think we'd finally have gotten far enough in education to not be so easily carrot and sticked. But damn. People coming out of the woodwork in this thread to defend literal world contamination.

No, he's saying we shouldn't use PFAS for carpet or military firefighting, but we should for semiconductor manufacturing where we have control over waste streams.
> we should for semiconductor manufacturing where we have control over waste streams

Note that this has not historically been the case, see for example all those superfund sites in SV.

Nobody is talking about banning them outright for all purpose here though.
People here, like tehjoker, are proposing total bans in this very thread.
The thread starts here:[1].

There's no comment from a user called “tehjoker” nor any comments talking about total bans, in this thread.

Also, in another, different, threat, “tehjoker” is also not proposing a total ban, you're reading his comment wrong.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39231091

That's a very bad faith paraphrase of their single comment in this thread:

> For what it's worth, depending on the harms, a sudden total ban is not out of the question as being beneficial to humanity as a whole. It would just be disruptive to enterprise, boo hoo. We don't need to always treat bad actors with kid gloves.

Hardly the extremism you're implying.

They are quite literally proposing a total ban. And then following it with some simplistic and emotionally charged rhetoric.
No they aren't! This comment isn't proposing anything!

They are arguing that even total bans should not be dismissed by default, and that there can exist situations “depending on the harms” that justifies a total ban.

And they did not say that in a vacuum, but as an answer to another comment that straight out dismissed total ban as an option.

This comment is in no way advocating for a total ban of PFAS in particular.