[addicted]

I hope you’ve done an actual sleep test to confirm your sleep apnea has improved.

Snoring is a useful but not 100% correlated marker for sleep apnea. It’s very possible to improve snoring without reducing the sleep apnea itself.

[Solvency]

I'm 39 years old. Perfect shape, no health issues, don't smoke, don't drink, regular exercise.

About a year ago, Out of NOWHERE I began snoring at night, and only when laying on my back. Never snored my entire life. No other position. But it drives my wife crazy. The problem is we cosleep with our baby, and laying on my back is the safest position.

I don't have apnea so I don't qualify for insurance for any kind of mouthpiece. The ENT just laughs me off like it's no big deal. My nose is fine and he's zero help.

I know it's something to do with my tongue but I have no idea what to do about it.

I've tried thin pillows, thick ones, no pillows. Doesn't help.

[vel0city]

> The problem is we cosleep with our baby, and laying on my back is the safest position.

No, the safest position is not having an infant in your bed with you while sleeping.

[bmitc]

"the safest position ... cosleeping with our baby"

Also, it really depends on what they mean by baby. An infant: probably shouldn't cosleep. A baby older than two to four months: probably fine if you have a large enough bed or side bed and take the proper precautions such as enough space for the baby, a flat surface with no sheets bunched up, no pillows or anything that can fall on them, etc. Some cultures promote sleep sharing yet have lower instances of SIDS than the U.S., and it's perhaps not clear how the studies arrived at it being so unsafe. Plus, as a parent, you are quite aware of the baby's presence. I think parents probably sleep worse during cosleeping, but the baby sleeps and bonds better.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/05/21/6012896...

[vel0city]

> Overall, the two studies suggest bed-sharing — when no other hazards are present — raises the risk of SIDS by about threefold.

[bmitc]

Cosleeping is very common in Japan, and yet, they have much lower SIDS rates than the U.S. does.

[vel0city]

Japan:

> Current SIDS ratio is 0.44/1,000 live birth.

https://www.nature.com/articles/pr1999959z

US:

> 38.4 deaths per 100,000 live births in 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/sids/data.htm

38.4 / 100 = .384

You're saying 0.384 > 0.44 ?

Either way, the person I was replying to has a diagnosed sleep disorder. You're really going to say it's a good idea for someone with a sleep disorder to sleep in the same bed as a child?

No.

The safest place for the child to sleep is in their own crib. You may choose to ignore those risks, it's not against the law or anything, but no matter how you slice it cosleeping is a riskier behavior than not cosleeping.

[Shadowmist]

> insurance

I was better off buying the machine outside of insurance. Insurance was testing to force me through some sort of rent-to-buy thing where the machine would get taken away if not used a certain number of hours per week. My out of pocket cost for the rental added up to significantly more that just buying the machine outright, and by buying the machine myself I didn’t have to share that data with the insurance company.

[sizzle]

Same for my parents, they really try to squeeze every cent out of us. I straight up bought my folks a medical reclining bed cause insurance was going to make them rent it and obviously cost more in the long run. They prey on the elderly who cant advocate for themselves or are too sick or recovering to figure out financing.

[AlwaysRock]

I had a similar issue.

Absolutely anecdotal but a jaw alignment mouth guard worked for me.

ZQuiet is that one I have: https://zquiet-usa.com/

I havnt used them but Zyppah looks like it is doing the same thing: https://zyppah.com/

The idea is to force your jaw into a slightly different position which keeps your tongue from falling back and blocking your airway.

I tried it before a sleep machine because its like $50. It works well enough and my wife doesnt complain about snoring anymore if I sleep on my back.

[Solvency]

The problem with these generic non-fitted ones I heard is it can really hurt your teeth (possibly even negatively impact them over prolonged use).

[reportgunner]

I thought everyone snores sleeping on their back.

[supertofu]

Uh... no? Not at all.

[photon_rancher]

Nope. It’s common and can be an indicator for apnea etc..

Normally sleeping on your back maximizes airflow instead of creating an obstruction (snoring)

[lupire]

Sleeping on your back is a cause of apnea and snoring. It's basic gravity.

[DiggyJohnson]

Presumably they also can sense how they feel when they wake up. An unencumbered night feels completely different than a night hindered by sleep apnea, snoring or otherwise.

[UseStrict]

Not for me, no change before or after the CPAP machine, but I had an over 100 AHI during 2 separate sleep lab assessments.

[DiggyJohnson]

Wait are you claiming your still wake up feeling like shit even though you are objectively getting better sleep? Or just that you haven't been able to improve your sleep apnea symptoms (AHI count) despite treatment so you still wake up feeling like shit?

Because even if there are some outliers like yourself, I can confidently claim that most people can correlate improvements in sleep apnea symptoms and sleep quality more generally with the way the feel in the morning.

[elric]

One of the many problems with sleep apnea treatment, is that we're treating AHI. AHI is an imperfect proxy for all the things that really happen on account of sleep apnea. Not breathing, underbreathing, micro arousals, clustering of apneas etc. Things like UARS can go undetected nearly forever.

You can have an AHI of 1 and still get zero REM sleep because every time you start going into REM, a respiratory event knocks you out of it.

Apneas and Hypopneas have to last for 10 seconds or more to be included in the AHI count. You can literally have hundreds of respiratory events and have an AHI of zero, but you're still going to feel pretty bleedin' awful.

There is also an RDI, Respiratory Disturbance Index, which includes the AHI events but also includes arousals caused by breathing issues. It is typically much higher than AHI in un(der)treated patients. It's also imperfect, and it's harder to measure.

Then, of course, we come to the CPAP machine reported AHI, which seems to be what insurance and doctors are interested in. In short: the number is garbage. These machines are absolutely TERRIBLE at correctly identifying events. Using those numbers as the basis for any kind of decision is awful.

Maybe one day we'll get CPAP devices with EEG devices in the head strap and with unobtrusive SpO2 sensors that actually work. Maybe then we can start reporting useful numbers which can actually be used in support of treatment.

Until then, it's very much possible to keep feeling like shit even though your sleep apnea is allegedly "under control".

[Shadowmist]

I don’t feel a difference, and in some ways I feel worse, such as when there is a slight leak which leads to my tank running dry. If I don’t use the machine then sometimes in the middle of the afternoon I think about just laying down on the floor wherever I am. I never feel great after using the machine though, and I’ve looked at the log data and it is working. The only reason I keep using the machine is that my spouse gets better sleep.

[DiggyJohnson]

That's interesting, it's still not clear to me that you don't have a faulty setup (avoiding leaks is important!) but nevertheless I appreciate the clarification. Good luck, and I hope you sleep well.

[lepus]

My sleep apnea was already extremely mild to the point where a sleep doctor told me I could just sleep on my side and not experience it, but I appreciate the concern.