[silverlyra]

I would gladly say you’re welcome – yet I believe your edit exacerbates the issue

you speak of a “secret” Made For iPhone program as if that’s still some conspiracy – https://mfi.apple.com/

my read of the article is that the EU commissioner advised Apple that if the company attempted to negate the USB-C regulations by only allowing full access to Apple devices connected via a cable with an Apple-approved MFi chip… that indeed they would be held accountable by the EU. had that been the case, it would be Apple continuing its regime of connector control over its users’ devices, as it has done up til now by insisting on MFi-certified Lightning cables

[kingsleyopara]

Honestly, I regret raising the point - sorry. The existence of the MFI programme isn't the problem. Just that Apple was planning on enforcing it on a USB C iPhone when they didn't on iPad. I could never imagine this situation: an Apple Store employee explaining to a customer why their iPhone won't charge with the same generic USB C cable that charges their iPad when they both share the same port.

[bloppe]

Seems right up Apple's alley to me. They're about to geofence all these App Store changes to the EU, after all. Would make complete sense for them to hobble the USB ports on iPhones despite the existence the iPad which disproves the infeasibility of a fully-features USB port for iOS.

Seems like this is going to become increasingly common as Apple clings to their rent-seeking practices in every jurisdiction that dawdles on antitrust enforcement.

[silverlyra]

hey, fwiw, I don’t regret your raising it, and I appreciate that you’ve been engaging with me :)

I would love for this thread to accomplish something other than meta rifraff, so — I’ve never worked as an Apple Store floor sales person, but:

> In the 90's, a USB cable was just four braided wires – literal copper wires which link copper pins in your [computer] with your [printer]. Two of them carried the data, and the other carried power and ground. This worked, and it was an affordable, easy-to-implement standard which spread like dandelion seeds on the wind.

> Now in the 2020's, we have USB-C. Have you ever had a kind of “friend” who tries to be “everything to everyone“? Well, that‘s USB-C.

> We fixed some things with USB A and mini – er, micro – B, like how hard they were to plug in, and how you invariably seemed to find yourself holding them upside down more than 50% of the time!

> And, well, engineers being engineers, and USB standing for universal serial bus, we tried to also solve all other problems at the same time. Like you couldn’t use a USB cable for video, or to power an air fryer.

> So, these days, USB cables are more than braids of copper wire. They are “active” cables! meaning they have a microchip inside. Even our cables became little computers.

> And we kept backwards compatibility with USB, so that if you use a plug adapter, you can take an original 90’s USB mouse and plug it right into your brand new iPhone n±1!

> Or nowadays, you might grab the wrong cable in your kitchen, and plug your toaster oven into your iPhone. yikes! I know you came in to the store today with a simple-seeming question, and we’ve been standing here now for minutes, and I apologize – but now I hope I can answer your question about why this cable isn’t recognized by your new phone.

> When an active cable is plugged in, the chip inside the cable “negotiates” with the chip inside the device. For a device you hold in your hand and use without thinking about it, like your phone, we have made the negotiator more stringent than we did in our tablet. :)

[vel0city]

I love USB-C. Its awesome with one cable I'm able to plug in multiple different models of computer to my monitor and get 3440x1440 160Hz + multiple USB 3.0 + audio + 65W power. Or go to my desk at work and plug into my dock and get multi monitors + gig networking + multiple USB ports + audio + 90W power. I'll take that over proprietary dock connectors any day.

I love that the same power adapter I use to charge one computer works with all my computers, my portable game console, my headphones, my portable speaker, my phone, my tablet, my flashlight, my battery bank, and more. I like that the USB-C port in my car can natively charge my laptop, at least when asleep/powered off, without needing an AC inverter to run a 19V brick.

There's no way you're going to convince me my life with dozens different sizes of barrel power adapters with different voltages/polarizations, micro + mini USB, and more proprietary power connectors were better. You're never going to convince me having the vendor lock-in of proprietary laptop docks was better than just a single cable to do it all. I can't wait to retire my last few barrel-type power devices.

[troupo]

> than just a single cable to do it all

Well, generally speaking, you can't use "just a single cable". Because a USB-C cable only carrying a power charge would still technically be a USB-C cable. And you would never know until you tried to connect your display with it

[vel0city]

I do use a single cable in that it's just one cable coming from my monitor or dock. It's just one charging adapter in my bag. So generally speaking I am just plugging in a single cable to my monitor or carrying a single charger in my backpack. I'm not plugging in power, HDMI, network, and a USB hub separately every time I hop from one desk to another, just plug the one cable on the desk and it's good to go.

Sure, I'm not literally talking about a single cable I'm taking from one port to another port, but the fact I can just plug my laptop into my monitor and get all of that is awesome. And if I bought a good cable I could totally do that. The fact I'm able to charge all my devices off my laptop charger is awesome. The fact one could cheap out and buy a cable that wouldn't work with all the features of the monitor/laptop link doesn't make that less awesome. I just use the included cables with the docks or what not or make sure to buy a cable that does what I need if replacing/upgrading and it's not a problem.

You're still not convincing me the existence of cheap cables that can't do it all makes having several different cables and power adapters a better time. In one case you're absolutely forced to have them be separate every time, in another it's only that they're separate if you're buying cheap bullshit online from trash vendors.

[troupo]

> I do use a single cable in that it's just one cable coming from my monitor or dock.

I do, too. However, what I wrote is a fact. Almost everything in the USB-C spec is optional, and you can't deduce which optional parts a USB-C cable supports from the cable alone.

For example, here's a charging USB-C cable with max transfer speed of 480 MB/s: https://www.clasohlson.com/se/USB-C-kabel-2m-USB-C-till-USB-...

Good luck connecting it to your monitor. And no, it's not a "cheap bullshit from trash vendors". This is literally in the standard

[riwsky]

USB-C: if YAML were a cable