[madboston]

This is true. The thing that most people won't appreciate is that taxes that are not done online are processed at a very slow pace. Most people don't try to optimize their withholding in a way to get close to 0 tax returns and won't be willing to wait long times to get any kind of returns. We all are paying cost of capitalism.

[akerl_]

It seems odd to be willing to give the government a loan over the course of the year, in the form of overwithholding, but then not be willing to wait a few more weeks to get the payout. If somebody is impatient to get their hands on that money, why not fix their W-4 so they get it with every paycheck?

(Also, as noted in the parallel comment, the forms can be submitted online, separately from the Free File service)

[madboston]

Well most people are just not literate when it comes to finances. They are not aware of what withholding means, how to calculate things. I'm sure it's not simple to do when you are working multiple jobs, or temp jobs in between (well these won't be those simple W 2 scenarios we are talking about).

We are know that the tax codes are intentionally complicated and big firms don't want government to fix them. Rules being complected allows having loopholes for certain people.

[akerl_]

I think we’re talking about different, related things.

The tax code in the US (and the filing process) is overcomplicated for a variety of political, corporate, and cultural reasons.

The average US taxpayer is under-educated on finances generally and tax code specifically.

That said, the W-4 is one area that’s actually gotten simpler in recent years. I simultaneously think the tax code needs serious simplification and that the average person has the capacity to read a W-4 and get reasonably close on their withholding. The reason many of them don’t is because they like getting a refund check once a year.

[moate]

Government: creates a byzantine tax code to allow the richest/most competent avoiders keep their wealth while consistently over-targeting lower-income groups for audits

For profit tax-co’s: do back door deals with the government to prevent lower-income/competence individuals from working directly with the gov’t while engaging in dark patterns to make the lower cost products harder to use/find

This guy: It’s the citizen’s fault and they get what they deserve for having other priorities than wealth management!

I think it’s fair to assume that all users want taxation to be as close to 0 overage as possible while also wanting all overage returned as quickly as possible. Anyone not working towards that sucks and is the universal enemy.

[akerl_]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

I know plenty of people who do not want their tax return to be close to zero. They like getting a big refund check back. This is the kind of person being described in the comment I replied to.

[ghaff]

There's a whole cottage industry painting refunds and spending them as a windfall and a good thing.

[madboston]

I have seen some people on reddit admit that they are bad at managing finances month to month and would rather have that big refund come back that they can use to pay off debt or something. I know it sounds counter intuitive, but whatever works for individuals man.

[ghaff]

I doubt the cottage industry is focused on debt reduction. That said, forced savings techniques can certainly make a lot of sense even if they're financially suboptimal.

[MarkSweep]

If you only have income from one W-2, two if you are married, yes it is easy. But if you have any variability in your income, it's hard to predict how much you tax you are going to owe. Not every income supports withholding (i.e. savings accounts) and the way you can set withholding varies by income source (W-2 supports a dollar amount per paycheck, RSUs often use a percentage). So getting the right combination of withholding settings to cover your tax liability across all income sources can be tricky.

[akerl_]

The overwhelming majority of US taxpayers do not have RSUs or enough savings for a 1099-INT to impact their taxes.

[hot_gril]

If I don't get the refund quickly, I don't trust that I'll get it ever. Things can fall through the cracks, and support dwindles for older tax returns.