[genman]

How much do you cook for yourself instead of eating out when you live alone? Now multiply it by 4 and ask if you still want to do it. Doing laundry takes also 4x more time and children make a lot of mess. But we are discussing about historical differences here where families were even larger and there were no household appliances.

[giantg2]

"How much do you cook for yourself instead of eating out when you live alone? Now multiply it by 4 and ask if you still want to do it."

I've basically always cooked for myself. You're not really multiplying it by 4. You might be multiplying the recipe by 4, but that's generally trivial. And, yes I still do it.

"Doing laundry takes also 4x more time and children make a lot of mess."

Sure, but it's not that much time to start with when the machines do the majority of the work. Then it's just folding and putting away. This is typically a chore that older children should be doing for themselves, and the younger ones have smaller clothes sizes, so it's not really 4x, but maybe 3x since they take up less of a load. There are also differences in how people choose to deal with the mess. Most kids do not need multiple changes every day except for the vanity of the parent wanting them to look really clean. They will get some food or dirt stains, and that should be expected for little kids. This is also the part where we need to acknowledge that the responsibility for the kids is also half of the doers responsibility anyways. So their added responsibility isn't that high.

"But we are discussing about historical differences here where families were even larger and there were no household appliances."

I completely understand that from a historical perspective, just as it was historically the man's sole responsibility to provide financially. I'm saying it shouldn't be a major factor today as long as one person isn't a complete freeloader. I'm also pointing out the differences of opinion, such as quadrupling a recipe vs cooking actually being 4x as long.

[eru]

> I completely understand that from a historical perspective, just as it was historically the man's sole responsibility to provide financially.

That's only a very small section of history for a specific section of the population.

Poor people always had the women doing lots of work. They had to.

[giantg2]

Even in those times, the women were paid very little. Going back far enough (when women were property), the women weren't even paid, but rather the money was given to the husband. And, of course these things vary for other cultures/countries.

[eru]

Well, depending on how wide you want to cast your net, paid employment (for any gender) is a fairly novel invention.

Women were only 'property' in some societies sometimes.

And I'm not sure there were (m)any instances where women were both considered property, but were also working a paid job where the money went to the husband? I'm afraid you might be mixing up your 'bad old times'?

(I agree that the present is by and large much more pleasant, but not everything bad happened all at once in the same place.)

[genman]

I think you are very seriously downplaying the extra effort family care takers actually are making. For sure it is not comparable to the historical levels but it still exits. I get your point, but your comment is equally damaging.

[giantg2]

"I think you are very seriously downplaying the extra effort family care takers actually are making."

You don't seem to realize that I am one, and do way more than 50%. If anything, it would be to my benefit to talk it up, but I still think that's not the way it should work.