[ajb]

With obesity there is a constant refrain that people should be able to deal with it by willpower alone. Here is an analogy to explain why this is unrealistic:

A while back I had a massive immune reaction in my skin, which brought with it the constant urge to scratch. A lot of people idly comment that the solution is to just not scratch, but it turned out that I had a skin infection, and under those circumstances the instinct to scratch is incredibly strong; you do it as soon as your mental attention is turned elsewhere. Once the skin infection was cured, and a bit of steroid cream applied the urge to scratch went away.

Now imagine how strong is the instinct to eat. Eating is essential for life, the instinct to eat when hungry has been reinforced by evolution constantly since the nervous system developed. Have you read a description of what it's like to starve? The brain can think of nothing but eating, peoples behaviour becomes quite extreme. Some people do overcome it - those who starve themselves to try to save their children, for example. But that's an enormous external motivation.

There's a bit of cognitive dissonance in seeing a hugely fat person and trying to imagine that their nervous system is for some reason acting like they are starving. It's a lot easier to imagine that they just don't have the willpower to resist that extra snack, which is a situation a lot more familiar to most of us. But it seems likely that the further is more correct.

[inglor_cz]

In December, I experimented with the potato diet from Slime Mold, Time Mold, and I actually lost some weight effortlessly. Not only I was way more satiated, I also noticed that I was losing appetite for meat etc.

I am inclined to believe that the root cause for the obesity epidemic is our satiety signals being out of whack. In which case "just eat less" is about as useful piece of advice as "just breathe less". In both cases you would be struggling against enormously strong, primordial bodily mechanisms.

[terryf]

> There's a bit of cognitive dissonance in seeing a hugely fat person and trying to imagine that their nervous system is for some reason acting like they are starving. It's a lot easier to imagine that they just don't have the willpower to resist that extra snack, which is a situation a lot more familiar to most of us. But it seems likely that the further is more correct.

yes, 100% this. Your analogy with scratching the itch is spot on. And you know that the itch that you can't scratch will continue forever until the end of your life. How depressing is that? It's not like running a marathon - with a marathon, it's long and hard, but there is a finish and you can rest after that. With being hungry all the time, there is never a finish. You just gotta keep on running. And running's kinda hard - and if you stop resisting and eat a few big meals, you offset weeks of weight-loss. Losing 100 calories a day for 20 days is hard, but gaining 2000 calories a day is real damn easy, and also feels great!

[tlow]

False premise. Fasting isn't forever, its for a set period of time. Running and fasting are very similar. When running you often feel the urge to stop and give up. You build up the strength over time to say no to that voice. Fasting is a method of short-term saying no to urges. As you learn to say no to that urge, you become better at saying no to that urge. A single prolonged fast can redefine ones relationship with eating. There are lots of reasons to eat, not all of them are the need for nutrition. There are lots of reasons to grab a phone, not all of them are necessary to function/social/work, yet many people feel the urge to pick up there phone 50+ times a day.

[terryf]

Well, thank you for telling me that I have understood my life all wrong.

About 10 years ago I weighed 113kg. I decided to really tackle it hard and not give up. Threw out all the sugar at home and went on a weightwatchers diet.

Over a period of 1.5 years I got my weight down to 97kg. It was very hard. It was a constant battle with hunger and feeling like crap. But I made it! I reached my goal and it was awesome!

So I crossed the finish line, right? No more hunger?

Guess again. I was back to 110kg a few years later. Still hungry.

So yes, please do tell me about how the urges will go away.

No, they do not.

It's a chemical reaction somewhere that in my body is happening with different amounts of components than some other people's body's. It's not a thing that I can wish really hard to change.

[tlow]

Your toxic attitude illustrates your counter argument rather than you argument.

I am not giving you or anyone else advice. But the electro-chemical reaction is also happening in your mind and the software you choose to run there.

There is no finish line. Life is suffering.

[tlow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=_fjTdiTLWjMGvdQb&v=84dYijIp...

further evidence refuting your claims

[tlow]

You've missed my point entirely and moved to a different discussion. I am not arguing about will power. What do you think instinct is? Are we simply slaves to our desires? No. Yet many still feel this way.

Have you ever tried meditating? Is it easy to just sit?

TikTok users have a strong urge to watch more TikTok. Should they just give into their urge for a short term dopamine rush? Will it feel difficult to not listen to this urge? Can they overcome it or are they trapped forever?

"Now imagine how strong is the instinct to eat." Fasting is a methodology to reset your metabolism. Dopamine fasting is a way to reset your urge to doom scroll. Meditation is a way to clear your mind.

Metabolically fasting dramatically increases insulin sensitivity, has profound benefits and helps one to become a master of their urges. It is a practice, like dopamine fasting, meditation, anything else...