[stouset]

I don’t think we can even remotely say that.

From all photo evidence I’ve seen, some cushions were sucked off the seat. These cushions are designed to be removed. If a passenger was seated and wearing their seat belt, I have every faith that they would have been fine. Uncomfortable as hell but ultimately fine. I’ll bet money the NTSB report will say as much.

And the point stands that the only reason this story is noteworthy is because of airlines’ spotless safety record over the past two decades. Incidents like this are exceedingly rare.

[flashback2199]

It is trivial to see how someone sitting there not seat belted could have perished. You do understand that long stretches of flight allow you to be unseatbelted right?

[stouset]

They allow you to, but on every single flight I’ve been on in ages, the pilot makes a note that they recommend keeping your seatbelt fastened whenever you’re seated. People have been injured due to sudden and unforeseen turbulence, and it’s just a good idea in general.

That said this incident occurred during the initial climb-out where seat belt use is mandatory.

So yes, if a passenger was seated there and if their belt was unbuckled, I can see how somebody would have died. Nobody is saying that this isn’t a serious fuckup that doesn’t need to be investigated and remedied.

What I am saying is that major airlines in the U.S. have a more or less unblemished safety record for twenty two years, the likes of which has not only been unparalleled in aviation, but by any other form of transport. Literally walking is more dangerous than flying a major commercial airline in the U.S.

The MAX line of planes in particular has had their share of problems, but with the MCAS situation resolved there is no reason to believe that it in particular is any less safe than any other airframe operated by the majors. The issue with the door plug is unlikely to be related to the MAX (the same part and design have been in service without issue since well before the MAX). It will be investigated, fixed, and we will in all likelihood go back to flying gajillions of passenger miles without serious incident.

I’ll put this another way: if all of this gnashing of teeth and doom and gloom causes enough anxiety over flying that a few hundred people choose to drive instead, it will inevitably cause more injury and death than if every airline went all-in on a fleet of 737 MAXes.

[flashback2199]

> Nobody is saying that this isn’t a serious fuckup

TIL half the people commenting here are nobody :)

[stouset]

I think you’re misunderstanding the comments. This was a problem, it needs to be investigated and fixed, but the overreaction to this is bordering on insanity.

Commercial aviation in the U.S. is still incomprehensibly safe. It is not getting measurably less safe. The 737 MAX line are not death traps.

[flashback2199]

> the overreaction to this is bordering on insanity

Not an overreaction. Not bolting on a door on a brand new plane is past bordering into full-on insanity.

[stouset]

Mechanics routinely forget to bolt the wheels onto cars, which has caused and continues to cause actual traffic deaths.

Nobody floods into the comment sections on HN when this happens because people dying in cars is depressingly normal but planes are so unimaginably safe that a person hypothetically getting sucked out of a plane is strange and terrifying.

[daedalus_j]

I was watching a video, I believe this one (https://youtu.be/WhfK9jlZK1o?si=goQBueaF-5So3U0X) that seemed to make the case that due to the door design it is much less likely, if not impossible, for the presumed failure here to occur at cruising altitude because of the higher pressure differential.

There's a reason they tell you to always wear your seatbelt though, ranging from sudden turbulence/downdraft to sudden depressurization.

[baggy_trough]

1. The seat was not destroyed. 2. The door blowing off would not be the only reason; a second reason would be that the person failed to wear the seatbelt.

[flashback2199]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe in blaming the user for manufacturing and maintenance errors. I think that makes a bad programmer too, actually.

[StreetChief]

A child in the middle row had his shirt sucked off his body. They were only at 16,000ft, maybe half the cruising altitude? I forget if it's 35,000 or 50,000 usually.

[sokoloff]

Commercial jets are typically cruising at 31K-36K feet, rarely above 39K, and almost never above 42K feet MSL.

[stouset]

> A child in the middle row had his shirt sucked off his body.

You're kind of making my point for me when clothing being removed from a person is the most harrowing part of an aviation incident.

[StreetChief]

except if he was sitting at the window, he might have gone out too...