[haltist]

> Man furnishes no exception to the rule. He seems to add the treachery and deceit that the other animals in the main do not practice, to all the other cruelties that move his life. Man has made himself master of the animal world and he uses his power to serve only his own ends. Man, at least, kills helpless animals for the pleasure of killing, alone. He breeds horses and dogs, and fixes a gala day which is a society occasion when both men and women dress for the event, whereupon they turn loose a puny fox and set on its trail a pack of hounds trained for the chase. The noble men and women, riding at a mad pace, follow over hill and dale until, after hours of effort, the exhausted fox is unable longer to escape them, and with great glee they see it torn to pieces by the hounds.

Darwin making a convincing case for our unbounded "human" capacity of cruelty against other animals. The fact that he is describing the practices of the aristocracy is also very relevant because every human being in the "developed" world today lives like an aristocrat and commits so many atrocities throughout the day that it would be impossible to catalogue them all.

This is why building the "panoptic computronium cathedral"™ is a moral imperative. I can get it all done for a mere $80B so tell all your friends about it. This is a bargain deal for saving the soul of humanity.

[lelanthran]

> The fact that he is describing the practices of the aristocracy is also very relevant because every human being in the "developed" world today lives like an aristocrat and commits so many atrocities throughout the day that it would be impossible to catalogue them all.

Any example of these atrocities that every human commits every day which are on the same scale and personal involvement as the fox hunting presented as the example of an atrocity?

[haltist]

You ever buy a sandwich with meat in it? How about coffee? Chocolate? Driving a car? Use pesticides to clear your home of termites? Poisons to get rid of rats and other "pests"? Do you use smart phones and other gadgets with rare earth metals? Have you recently walked by a homeless person and what did you do about the situation? Do you have an opinion on Israel's actions in Gaza? Ever been in a car accident? Run over some animals/people because you were going too fast? Do you use makeup tested on animals? The list is endless.

The soul of humanity can be saved for a mere $80B with the help of the "panoptic computronium cathedral"™ so tell all your friends about it. A better humanity is possible for a very cheap investment, all that's needed is some hardware and software that will enable governing the world with mathematics.

[lelanthran]

> You ever buy a sandwich with meat in it? How about coffee? Chocolate? Driving a car? Use pesticides to clear your home of termites? Poisons to get rid of rats and other "pests"? Do you use smart phones and other gadgets with rare earth metals? Have you recently walked by a homeless person and what did you do about the situation? Do you have an opinion on Israel's actions in Gaza? Ever been in a car accident? Run over some animals/people because you were going too fast? Do you use makeup tested on animals?

Do you think that any of those examples are in the category of "taking pleasure and directly taking part in seeing a live animals torn to bits"?

[haltist]

It has nothing to do with your subjective experience and everything to do with the fact that wanton use of resources, animals, and people for selfish purposes is fundamentally immoral and atrocious. The fact that the aggregate effect ends up being a crime against nature is why these atrocities are innumerable. By simply existing and opting into the system you are complicit in its operation and propagation.

You don't have to see a live animal torn to bits to be implicated in the unethical farming and slaughter of animals, all you have to do is spend a dollar to support the system that makes it all possible.

[lelanthran]

> It has nothing to do with your subjective experience and everything to do with the fact that wanton use of resources, animals, and people for selfish purposes is fundamentally immoral and atrocious.

I'm trying to clarify your position here: Do you think that eating a creature, farmed, raised and killed in accordance with current legislation, is the same level of atrocity as laughing with pleasure as a live animal is torn apart, just for the joy of the audience?

Because, TBH, if you argue that those two are the same in level and intensity of "evilness", then you are, in all fairness, not playing with a full deck.

If you argue that they are not, then your original comment is off the mark.

[haltist]

Oh so you're doing me a favor? That's great but the only favor I need from you is to tell your friends about the panoptic computronium cathedral. Thanks again for being so helpful but I just need money to save humanity and don't need anyone to clarify my position because it is pretty clear if you have an IQ high enough to understand it.