[kayg04]

Stronglifts 5x5 is simply a terrible program to start. Pick a frequency you can adhere to over the long course of time, be it 2x - 6x a week, and stick to the basics. Don't try to lift ultra heavy on day 1 and btw, you don't need to lift heavy to build muscle.

If you are looking to start, huge shoutout to Dr. Mike from Renaissance Periodisation and Dr. Milo from Wolf Coaching. Both of their YouTube channels are excellent and set you up for the long-term.

[mattgreenrocks]

I had trouble with 5x5 when starting out. It was billed as simple and foolproof, but my form was lacking. I am hyper-mobile, so this means I really have to train proprioception, and probably not make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

This is something I didn't know I didn't know, and I had to learn the hard way. It doesn't mean 5x5 is bad, it just didn't fit for me when starting out initially. Lifting forums have a tendency towards the idea that, "you aren't special, just do these things" because they have a lot of people descend upon them with too many questions.

But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to adjust.

[matwood]

You need to fix your form regardless of program. 5x5 is fine, along with many other programs. If you want to gain size, it's more about eating than anything else. If you're new, you can do almost anything consistently and you'll get gains.

The reason 5x5 is recommended so often is almost everyone will benefit from more strength. After a full cycle of 5x5, any other programs you do will benefit from the strength base you built. 5x5 of the big lifts also limits people wasting time on things like curls.

[kayg04]

Mate, 5x5 isn't even what you would do to make the most gains possible. The amount of pump / soreness / disruption / metabolite sequestration you get with your 5RM is... very very low. It will certainly make you stronger but it won't grow you a lot of muscle.

> But sometimes things aren't working, and you need to adjust.

Absolutely. Dogmatic approaches to training doesn't work very well. Listening to your body and adapting does.

[mattgreenrocks]

What programs do you like for hypertrophy? At this point I'm mostly interested in that, I mostly need functional strength.

[kayg04]

I switched from powerlifting style training to hypertrophy training in the last year, and I have found nothing but more enjoyment out of my training. It isn't to say powerlifting style training is bad, just that my ankle mobility is shit so I can't squat below parallel easily, at least not without an ultra wide stance.

As for hypertrophy programs, I make my own by following Dr. Mike, Dr. Milo and Jeff Nippard on YouTube. Here's the one I am currently going through: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AiiXzauoGwzRgx2Jzb45uzbzdWC8

[mattgreenrocks]

Awesome, thanks a bunch!

[matwood]

> I mostly need functional strength.

What is functional strength? I remember a story where a guy was deadlifting and a kid came up and asked, "what muscle does that work?". The lifter asks the kid if he watches football, and the kid says 'yeah'. The lifter then goes, when you watch a line backer run across the field and hit a runner - that's the muscle the DL works.

[hammock]

5x5 starts with the empty bar precisely so you can work on form before it gets heavy

[dustincoates]

I'm not a fan of SL, but from what I recall, it's not true that you are starting ultra heavy on day one. If I remember correctly, you're actually starting with the bar (except for deadlifts).

The bigger problem, IMO, with SL is that when you fail, and of course you will, there's nothing to help you break through it.

[kayg04]

Sure, but when you are starting out: The olympic bar - 20 kg, maybe your 5RM and if you have never squatted before and hit your 5 RM on your first day of working out, the probability of injury is more than it isn't.

And what you said is also right; from the page:

> 5×5 means you do five sets of five reps with the same weight. Squat 20kg five times, rack the weight, and rest 90 seconds. Then Squat 20kg for five reps again. Repeat until you’ve done five sets of five (5×5). Then move to the next exercise.

There's no way you can keep the weight same across 5 sets unless, according to the example, 20 kg is your 10RM+ weight. That too with 90 seconds rest. Squats and Deadlifts will gas you out completely. It'll take you 90 seconds to just catch up with your breath. And some more for the actual muscle (and synergists) to recover.

[malfist]

I have a hard time believing a healthy adult male would hit a 5RM at 45 pounds. If you can jump you can propel more than 45 pounds up and down.

[matwood]

But if you don't get all 5x5 then you keep the same weight for the next workout. An adult male should be able to squat 45lbs for at least a set of 5. They might not hit all 25 day 1, but they have to start somewhere.

[hammock]

5x5 starts with an empty bar, not ultra heavy weight, on day 1. Eventually you get to 5-rep max (if that is what you are calling “ultra heavy”) but it takes a while to get there