[ivansavz]

That's cool, but it seems to be limited to macros and working under the assumption that a calorie is a calorie.

It would be much more interesting to me to have an easy way to access the information about "how processed" a food is, for example using the NOVA classification[1,2,3] system or something like that. I'm not sure if you can access that as a DB download or an API of some sort, but worth looking into.

If you can't get data on this, then I'm pretty sure you can approximate the nova score by based on the "added sugars" and fibre contents... although it would be difficult to tell apart "undisturbed fibre" vs. fibre added later on as additive.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification [2] https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf [3] https://world.openfoodfacts.org/nova

[XorNot]

Why the hell would a person need an app to tell "how processed" a food is? This is the one bit of information that is contextually obvious.

[stabbles]

It's just a nuance to the rule of thumb, that doesn't warrant such a strong reaction?

If a 1st order rule of thumb is keeping caloric contents in check, a 2nd order rule doing that for nutrients individually, I wonder if someone knows a good but easy third order rule of thumb that takes into account processing.

Something like "when two foods have roughly identical nutrients, prefer the one that has ingredients you could buy or make at home" might either not help cause there are no two such options to choose from, or it's too obvious (fresh pizza at the supermarket is worse than a handmade pizza)

Is there a good rule of thumb that helps you pick relatively healthy foods in a world where many foods are ultra-processed already, and can't really be avoided?

[getwiththeprog]

My 1st rule of thumb: Avoid processed foods. This way I don't have to really think much more about what to eat.

And yes, ultra-processed foods are easy to avoid if you go the right suppliers, such as grocers. Supermarkeups are definitely difficult places to eat well.

[mathgeek]

Consider it for how processed a specific brand of food is, rather than a general food. Right now most specifications don’t get more specific than organic, free range, grass fed, vegan, all natural, no preservatives, etc. I suspect the problem would lie in data quality more than deriving insights.

For example: a sliced apple is technically processed food, but what is it sprayed with?

[bardworx]

Usually hydrogen peroxide[0] (when sliced) but if you are referring to what chemicals a farm uses, that would be really, really hard to provide. I believe Chipotle tried to do a farm to store supply chain doc and gave up and went with a distributor. However, they still are trying w/ robotics and other initiatives.[1]

At the end of the day, how do you really know what chemicals are used on the farm? The cost of tracking anything is astronomical. I.E. cost of a bolt in airline industry.

Lastly, at least for food: producers, distributors, end-users (stores), and everyone else uses different software with proprietary protocols and the margins don't really incentivize anyone from switching.

[0]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0362028X2... [1]: https://www.supplychainbrain.com/articles/35217-chipotle-zer...

[mathgeek]

Exactly my point, thanks for elaborating the example!

[getwiththeprog]

Different organic certifications allow different inputs, look up e.g. NASAA https://www.agriculture.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents... but wow is that a difficult document to apply when shopping!

[solardev]

I don't know, it's not really easy for me (as an ignorant American who grew up on junk food) to guess how much processing is in food. I dunno if there's much difference between cow milk, soy milk, oat milk, etc. How is tofu or blueberry yogurt made? What's in a slice of sandwich cheese? Are these fancy organic crackers any different from Ritz? What's in olive oil vs canola oil? Vegan butter vs margarine?

Most of the grocery store is made up of processed flavored glops of one sort or another. The Nova classification is new to me, but would certainly be interesting information (though possibly also fearmongering).

[RcouF1uZ4gsC]

> I dunno if there's much difference between cow milk, soy milk, oat milk

Well given the fact that cow milk exists in nature, has been drank by humans for thousands of years, and the other two are trying to be like cow milk, right off the bat, I think a good working hypothesis is that cow milk is less processed than soy and oat milk. They may pasteurize and homogenize it and add some vitamins, but it is fundamentally pretty close to what came out of the cow. Soy mil and oat milk, need a lot more processing to turn soy and oats into something at resembles milk.

[Novosell]

Isn't oat milk just putting oats and water in a blender basically?

[solardev]

That's the exact question I had too. I don't know they just add water and soak, or if they use some sort of chemical process to dissolve the oats and isolate some powder that they reconstitute later... etc.

I feel like this should be information available on all labeling. I have no idea what "guar gum" is, and whether that's more processed than "enriched wheat flour", and whatever the hell "natural flavors" are.

[stabbles]

Chris van Tulleken has an excellent book (and talk [1]) on the subject

[1] https://youtu.be/5QOTBreQaIk

[solardev]

This is a really phenomenal talk (and he's a great speaker)! Thank you so much for sharing this.

I haven't studied this topic much since the days of Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food, and I really appreciated Chris's scientifically grounded overview. I think I'm going to get the book and seriously reexamine my eating habits in this new year.

Thank you again for linking this!

[getwiththeprog]

You have just asked all the right questions. Now comes the fun part of looking up all the answers :)

Spoiler: Keep it simple and learn to cook.